a hole in my surface

[nostupidquestions]

i've got a hole in my surface that won't go away. i've tried adding lines to the surface but i keep getting a breakline error even though i don't have breaklines. my surface is built with points and i've been swaping faces and adding lines to get the contours right but for some reason i can't add a line across this hole to get rid of it. am i missing something?

[Sinc]

Does your surface have a maximum triangle length set in its build properties?

[kcobabe]

Does your surface have a wipeout or a boundary there?

[Anonymous]

If neither of the questions prior to this post is YES, draw a polyline
around the hole and define this poyline as a SHOW boundary. All TIN lines
will magically appear.

Matt

[dana.probert]

did you, at any point, use the "delete lines" command?

[nostupidquestions]

i tried the show boundary thing and it worked to a point. it pulled in the triangles but it wouldn't let me swap faces to get the contours right.

yes i have deleted lines.

[dana.probert]

once you've deleted lines, that section of TIN is like a black hole. if you undo your line erasures in the edit history, you'll probably be able to manipulate them again.

if you didn't delete lines in that area, this is likely not the problem but i might try it anyway.

in general, i avoid using the delete lines tool unless i really want a black hole. i like to delete points instead if I must get rid of some odd triangulation.

[nostupidquestions]

i agree. i usually only use it when i'm cleaning up the surface but this was a case of spending all day cleanig up a survey and then getting additional points due to new construction. i had to delete old points and insert new ones and in the process i think the lines got deleted. i was trying to avoid redoing the whole thing. i'll see if i can find them in the edit history. thanks for the help.

[Anonymous]

Note that there is a difference - if the points got deleted, then they got
rid of the lines as well, but if you actually go under Edits and manually
remove lines, the black hole that Dana suggests appears. I've found that
to be annoying at best, and never delete lines inside my surface, only on
the outer edges.

--
Jason Hickey
www.civil3d.com
www.eng-eff.com


"NoStupidQuestions" wrote in message news:5797920@discussion.autodesk.com...
i agree. i usually only use it when i'm cleaning up the surface but this was
a case of spending all day cleanig up a survey and then getting additional
points due to new construction. i had to delete old points and insert new
ones and in the process i think the lines got deleted. i was trying to avoid
redoing the whole thing. i'll see if i can find them in the edit history.
thanks for the help.

[ccoles]

Deleting lines and creating 'black-holes' has been a handy feature from some of the edits we were doing on a particular project. We were re-grading just the side slopes of a pond to a more manageable slope, but not re-grading the flatter middle. By erasing the lines inside the surafce, it created this 'dead zone' that even showed up on our cross-sections.

But, I agree. If there are erroneous triangulated lines within the surface you need to get rid of, it is better to erase the points, and let the links re-adjust than to delete the lines. I also noticed that under certain conditions, Civil 3D will add points tto a surface, causing unintended behavior. With surface points turned on, they show up with a different symbol than the hard points from feature lines and survey points. Makes it easy to delete.

[nostupidquestions]

i found a work around. i pulled the points from the topo point group in and around the hole. then i added surface points back on top of the points i pulled out. it works great if you don't have many points.

[Anonymous]

I had a hole in a surface I'm working on and came here for help.... I added a random point in the middle of the whole (giving it an elevation relatively close to the surrounding area) then deleted that point and it fixed the whole by adding triangles back in.... might give that a shot.

[krobinsonA6DL5]

I know this is an old thread, but I would like to re-open the question. I drew a polyline around the holes and defined it as a "show" boundary. When I did this, the rest of my surface disappeared and new lines were shown within the boundary. What am I doing wrong?

[JamesMaeding]

I've always told people to never do hand edits. You should be able to start fresh, add the components, and the tris be right. You do this with breaklines. The problem is if a surface goes corrupt, you must rebuild. If another party gives you info from non civil3d, you must rebuild. If you hit bugs, you must rebuild. So many reasons and trying to replicate the edits is too error prone. At least minimize them. This case is a good example, rebuilding the surface from scratch would eliminate questions about why it's not behaving. Not what people want to hear, but when someone with Carlson or inroads needs to build your surface, landxml is not desired and hand edits are not easily communicated.

[krobinsonA6DL5]

I rebuilt the surface and it disappeared.

[JamesMaeding]

right, but it sounds like that was because you had deleted lines previously.

In other words, I'm not saying the surface was misbehaving, I think your hand edits told it to make the hole.

I did not mention that I think Civil3D provides no good tools for making those additional breaklines.

Feature lines are an enhancement on 3d polylines, they are not how civil engineers design 3d linear things.

If they made an object that let you pick any pline, then pick where grade breaks and vert curves happen, and then show in 3d when done, that would be a civil engineering tool. Any programmer can do that, as the math is easy so its just being organized with your data attached to the pline.

In addition, the c3d alignment object does contain that exact data, but they never finished their alignment object by letting you designate a current profile to edit in plan.

We made that tool in-house years ago, and never looked back. Its so obviously the right solution once you have it.