AutoCAD Civil 3D

[#1]

This would be a great time to start...

John

wrote in message news:4901705@discussion.autodesk.com...
Map query doesn't yet support the civil 3D objects.

[#2]

We must not have the Desker's attention yet; anybody else notice their
absence from this thread?

Maybe they are silently, but furiously taking notes. :-)

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:4901785@discussion.autodesk.com...
This would be a great time to start...

John

wrote in message news:4901705@discussion.autodesk.com...
Map query doesn't yet support the civil 3D objects.

[#3]

Hi Aaron - There are pros and cons to this. I think you've touched on the
Pros nicely (and I'm not disputing them in anyway). There are also
limitations that I think you may want to consider. The main one is that
XREFs are at a drawing level vs. at an individual object level. This makes
it harder to use XREFs as a way of managing project data (ie, I want to make
a drawing that has these two surfaces, this alignment, this profile). To do
this with XREFs, you'd need to create a single drawing with each object.
Then you'd need to XREF all of these drawings into your working drawing.
That could get a bit cumbersome. The Shortcut concept that is introduced in
Civil 3D 2006 lets you start thinking about each piece of data in the model.
It's more like the LDT concept (sort of, kind of, but different!).

We've had many discussions about the various options, and this is one that
may be the way to go. I would also say that there may be others that are at
least as effective or that may solve the problem in a different way. What I
can say for certain is that XREFs will continue to be a key part of our
overall solution. The more we can make Civil 3D XREF friendly, the better.

Thanks for the feedback!
Dave Simeone
Civil 3D Product Manager

"Aaron Lance" wrote in message
news:4900804@discussion.autodesk.com...
I had accidentally posted this as a reply to::
"Opinions on Layer-based versus Style-based control of entities?"
I meant it to be a new discussion topic, so here it is:


One of the advantages of the Civil 3D idea is that the data has mostly been
moved out of external databases and into drawings.

Using the project paradigm, under any implementation, the user has to
export design elements to an external file, then import that element into
the file where it's to be used. This exporting and imporing of data
inherently leads to problems with keeping the data synchronized.

I brought this up a few months ago, but here it is again. It could work
that
if a drawing is xref'd, since the alignments, surfaces, etc. in the drawing
are
viewable, Civil 3D should be able to reference them as a design
elements, at least with read-only access.

It would be much easier to manage if we could just xref a grading file and
be able to label spot elevations based on any surfaces in the file, or
xref a master drawing and be able to use the alignments in it to label
stations and offsets in a sheet drawing or exhibit.

If xrefing a file allowed a user to read the Civil 3D objects in that file,
there would be no need to duplicate data, no need for projects as an
organizing element, and no synchronization issues, because there would be
only one copy of the data.

Thanks,
- Aaron Lance

[#4]

If I had only waited five more minutes... :-)

Thanks for letting us know "someone" was listening, O Great Kahunna.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Dave Simeone" wrote in message
news:4901775@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Aaron - There are pros and cons to this. I think you've touched on the
Pros nicely (and I'm not disputing them in anyway). There are also
limitations that I think you may want to consider. The main one is that
XREFs are at a drawing level vs. at an individual object level. This makes
it harder to use XREFs as a way of managing project data (ie, I want to make
a drawing that has these two surfaces, this alignment, this profile). To do
this with XREFs, you'd need to create a single drawing with each object.
Then you'd need to XREF all of these drawings into your working drawing.
That could get a bit cumbersome. The Shortcut concept that is introduced in
Civil 3D 2006 lets you start thinking about each piece of data in the model.
It's more like the LDT concept (sort of, kind of, but different!).

We've had many discussions about the various options, and this is one that
may be the way to go. I would also say that there may be others that are at
least as effective or that may solve the problem in a different way. What I
can say for certain is that XREFs will continue to be a key part of our
overall solution. The more we can make Civil 3D XREF friendly, the better.

Thanks for the feedback!
Dave Simeone
Civil 3D Product Manager

"Aaron Lance" wrote in message
news:4900804@discussion.autodesk.com...
I had accidentally posted this as a reply to::
"Opinions on Layer-based versus Style-based control of entities?"
I meant it to be a new discussion topic, so here it is:


One of the advantages of the Civil 3D idea is that the data has mostly been
moved out of external databases and into drawings.

Using the project paradigm, under any implementation, the user has to
export design elements to an external file, then import that element into
the file where it's to be used. This exporting and imporing of data
inherently leads to problems with keeping the data synchronized.

I brought this up a few months ago, but here it is again. It could work
that
if a drawing is xref'd, since the alignments, surfaces, etc. in the drawing
are
viewable, Civil 3D should be able to reference them as a design
elements, at least with read-only access.

It would be much easier to manage if we could just xref a grading file and
be able to label spot elevations based on any surfaces in the file, or
xref a master drawing and be able to use the alignments in it to label
stations and offsets in a sheet drawing or exhibit.

If xrefing a file allowed a user to read the Civil 3D objects in that file,
there would be no need to duplicate data, no need for projects as an
organizing element, and no synchronization issues, because there would be
only one copy of the data.

Thanks,
- Aaron Lance

[#5]

We use xrefs heavily with Land Desktop. We split up horizontal design,
vertical design, and profiles as separate drawings. If we do a 2000 lot
subdivision, it's typically split up into about 20 parcels. Each parcel has
it's own set of files and it's own LDT project. Collector and off-site
streets also have their own files and project.

With Civil 3D, shortcuts might hold the simplest solution.. I have to say I
haven't gotten that far in migrating to Civil 3D, and I haven't really done
any customization (I'm trying to learn the Autodesk way of doing things
first).

I may be able to write a tool that will automatically create shortcuts to
the data objects in the xrefs when the drawing is opened, or when the xrefs
are attached/overlayed. I'll have to try some things out to see I can get
something like that to work.

Thanks,
- Aaron Lance


"Dave Simeone" wrote in message
news:4901775@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Aaron - There are pros and cons to this. I think you've touched on the
Pros nicely (and I'm not disputing them in anyway). There are also
limitations that I think you may want to consider. The main one is that
XREFs are at a drawing level vs. at an individual object level. This makes
it harder to use XREFs as a way of managing project data (ie, I want to make
a drawing that has these two surfaces, this alignment, this profile). To do
this with XREFs, you'd need to create a single drawing with each object.
Then you'd need to XREF all of these drawings into your working drawing.
That could get a bit cumbersome. The Shortcut concept that is introduced in
Civil 3D 2006 lets you start thinking about each piece of data in the model.
It's more like the LDT concept (sort of, kind of, but different!).

We've had many discussions about the various options, and this is one that
may be the way to go. I would also say that there may be others that are at
least as effective or that may solve the problem in a different way. What I
can say for certain is that XREFs will continue to be a key part of our
overall solution. The more we can make Civil 3D XREF friendly, the better.

Thanks for the feedback!
Dave Simeone
Civil 3D Product Manager

"Aaron Lance" wrote in message
news:4900804@discussion.autodesk.com...
I had accidentally posted this as a reply to::
"Opinions on Layer-based versus Style-based control of entities?"
I meant it to be a new discussion topic, so here it is:


One of the advantages of the Civil 3D idea is that the data has mostly been
moved out of external databases and into drawings.

Using the project paradigm, under any implementation, the user has to
export design elements to an external file, then import that element into
the file where it's to be used. This exporting and imporing of data
inherently leads to problems with keeping the data synchronized.

I brought this up a few months ago, but here it is again. It could work
that
if a drawing is xref'd, since the alignments, surfaces, etc. in the drawing
are
viewable, Civil 3D should be able to reference them as a design
elements, at least with read-only access.

It would be much easier to manage if we could just xref a grading file and
be able to label spot elevations based on any surfaces in the file, or
xref a master drawing and be able to use the alignments in it to label
stations and offsets in a sheet drawing or exhibit.

If xrefing a file allowed a user to read the Civil 3D objects in that file,
there would be no need to duplicate data, no need for projects as an
organizing element, and no synchronization issues, because there would be
only one copy of the data.

Thanks,
- Aaron Lance

[#6]

and you can't believe how much those of us that do both disciplines are
loving that shared/barrowed code. ADT styles and objects are SSSSOOOO COOL
and its about time Autodesk caught up on the civil side of things.

--
Larry
ADT, LDT/CD & C3D
(all 2006 with all SPs installed)
P4 - Dual 3.0 GHz, 1.00 GB RAM
RADEON 9550 AGP - 256 MB
Windows XP Pro, SP 2


wrote in message news:4901588@discussion.autodesk.com...
It has to be possible, inside of building systems I can connect duct systems
thru xrefs, someone at autodesk has already figured out how to do this.
Just need to borrow some more of the code base from the Arch guys. C3D has
done a bunch of this already( Partbuilder, Catalog browser etc)

[#7]

Remember to Keep It Simple! KISS

C3D data transfer needs to be seamless, transparent, invisible and SIMPLE.

Right now the transferring of Project data, Alignment data, Surfaces, Styles and etc. Is way too complicated, hidden and undocumented to say the least.

For our clients to start using C3D in a true work environment, the ease of data sharing is very important! Seems like every client that asks about C3D there main concern is data sharing. The days of only one designer for one project is gone.

I'm still not convinced that old LDT way of having a Project Folder with all of this info in it and allowing numerous other drawing have assess to this, is all that BAD? Yes, I know that having this data located outside of the drawing will slow the dynamic process with the read/writing issue with Network Hard drives. But right now C3D is no speed demon! This is telling me that with all of the excess info/data that resides in the DWG now this must be counter productive and negating any gains of having this project data resident in the dwg.....

There was a time when Softdesk tried to keep alot of the data resident but then they realized that it was better to leave some things on the hard drive and access/load it as needed.....

Remember, most users have no idea of what LDT is actually doing with its projects directories/files and could care less! All they care about it that it is working. KISS
Designers have more than enough to worry about, don't have them worrying about checking out or checking in there data. Have the software JUST DO IT!

Bill Neuhauser P.E.

p.s. Just spent the last 2 days, doing 18 hours of C3D training for a client....... I have plenty of other things to add..

Above is constructive criticism, C3D is going in the right direction, Keep up the Good work!

[#8]

It sounds like a new Xref manager is needed, one specifically built for Civil 3D with options for including links for Civil 3D objects. it would be a combination of the current Xref manager with the functionality of data shortcuts built in. Xref another file and you'll get a dialog box showing you what linkable data is available in the Xref and you get to check off what you need access to. The data links would be created in the background and stored within the current file in the same manner as Xrefs. No outside files. No project manager. Updates to links are handled the same an a normal Xref.

[#9]

I don't know how hard that would be from a programming point of view, but from a user's perspective, that's brilliant!

[#10]

i dont know all (or really any!) of the technical details, but it seems that adesk Building Systems can look a little deeper into xref and identify blocks and parts. Maybe the software code needed is lurking somewhere within the adesk walls, it just needs to find its way over to the C3D?

Mark