AutoCAD Civil 3D

[#1]

I believe it was only Dave that was twisted.

What really perpetuates the problem is the general attitude that an engineer
should not need anything more than "how to turn it on" computer skills to
drive complex design software. It is not reasonable to expect every
engineer to be a computer expert, but yes, repeatedly giving the same answer
to the same question to the same person gets a little tiring after a while.
My problem is with those who refuse to try & instead insist that it's
somehow my fault when they don't know how to fix a problem that they're
having.

--
Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.



"Fred Ernst" wrote in message
news:1FCE4F296F1C252B5CD6EE9B5EF8E693@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> You guys are all twisted because an engineer didn't know what a *.ctb file
> was? Sheesh, us engineers have to leave some crumbs on the table for you
> guys to exist.
>
> It's this kind of "chip on the shoulder" attitude from non-revenue
> generating support people that can really bring down the efficiency and
> profitability of an office. Unfortunately upper management all too often
> doesn't see or understand the technical exchanges between engineers and
> computer support staff, or they would take steps to mitigate the problem
> before it results in the unsustainable loss of revenue, then office jobs.
>
> We had a lead support person in the company I use to work for who
> stonewalled the engineers as you talk about doing. We went from a Land
> Development staff of 35+ to 4 over 4 years. Everyone complained about him,
> but he was manged under corporate and was for some reason "untouchable" by
> the local branch office. His attitude hampered the development of a lot of
> the staff. He ended up losing his job though eventually also due to the
> office downsizing.
>
> Fred
>
>

[#2]

Fred, you are one of the guys that understands the whole thing top to
bottom. I like working with engineers with your kind of hands on
intuitiveness. The ones that makes me batty are the guys that want to list
property line coordinate corners out to 16 decimal places because that is
what the computer generated.
No doubt that when you get an engineer (like you) life gets easier quick.
But if we didn't have the Goobers in the office there would be no one to
laugh at.
Tim

"Fred Ernst" wrote in message
news:1FCE4F296F1C252B5CD6EE9B5EF8E693@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> You guys are all twisted because an engineer didn't know what a *.ctb file
> was? Sheesh, us engineers have to leave some crumbs on the table for you
> guys to exist.
>
> It's this kind of "chip on the shoulder" attitude from non-revenue
> generating support people that can really bring down the efficiency and
> profitability of an office. Unfortunately upper management all too often
> doesn't see or understand the technical exchanges between engineers and
> computer support staff, or they would take steps to mitigate the problem
> before it results in the unsustainable loss of revenue, then office jobs.
>
> We had a lead support person in the company I use to work for who
> stonewalled the engineers as you talk about doing. We went from a Land
> Development staff of 35+ to 4 over 4 years. Everyone complained about him,
> but he was manged under corporate and was for some reason "untouchable" by
> the local branch office. His attitude hampered the development of a lot of
> the staff. He ended up losing his job though eventually also due to the
> office downsizing.
>
> Fred
>
>

[#3]

I still remember my college days, when a student presented a cost estimate
for a $30 million project that she had worked on all semester. Her estimate
was shown to the nearest penny.

--
Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.



"Tim S." wrote in message
news:1975BCCB038A9EEFF541BE24C712ADA5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Fred, you are one of the guys that understands the whole thing top to
> bottom. I like working with engineers with your kind of hands on
> intuitiveness. The ones that makes me batty are the guys that want to list
> property line coordinate corners out to 16 decimal places because that is
> what the computer generated.
> No doubt that when you get an engineer (like you) life gets easier quick.
> But if we didn't have the Goobers in the office there would be no one to
> laugh at.
> Tim
>
> "Fred Ernst" wrote in message
> news:1FCE4F296F1C252B5CD6EE9B5EF8E693@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > You guys are all twisted because an engineer didn't know what a *.ctb
file
> > was? Sheesh, us engineers have to leave some crumbs on the table for you
> > guys to exist.
> >
> > It's this kind of "chip on the shoulder" attitude from non-revenue
> > generating support people that can really bring down the efficiency and
> > profitability of an office. Unfortunately upper management all too often
> > doesn't see or understand the technical exchanges between engineers and
> > computer support staff, or they would take steps to mitigate the problem
> > before it results in the unsustainable loss of revenue, then office
jobs.
> >
> > We had a lead support person in the company I use to work for who
> > stonewalled the engineers as you talk about doing. We went from a Land
> > Development staff of 35+ to 4 over 4 years. Everyone complained about
him,
> > but he was manged under corporate and was for some reason "untouchable"
by
> > the local branch office. His attitude hampered the development of a lot
of
> > the staff. He ended up losing his job though eventually also due to the
> > office downsizing.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
>
>

[#4]

Don't laugh too hard...I did one in college where I forgot to divide by 27
to get cubic yards instead of feet when dealing with pipe excavation. Could
have build the sewers out of gold I was so far off. :-$

The UI in C3D is for an engineer to use. Not a dumb engineer, but a properly
trained, relatively computer literate engineer. For those that don't train
their engineers to use the software, or consider them too dumb to use it,
I'm happy. I'm happy to steal your clients when they realize how much money
you're wasting doing it old school.

C3D is for engineers, accept that, and plan deployment/training accordingly.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
IT Manager
Jones & Boyd, Inc.
Dallas, TX
XP/1 on P4-1.6/512
LDT2004+C3D

[#5]

Bonk. Don't give yourself too much credit. This software is for people who
use it every day. Civil Engineering is not rocket science, it is simply
shaping dirt and conrete. I'll take a tech with twenty years experience over
a young engineer any day.
When you get a Fred Ernst who is not only an engineer but also applies
himself to learning the software, then you really have something.
One thing for sure, this software doesn't require a P.E. to be used
properly. It requires a dedicated user with advanced knowledge of
construction techniques.
Tim

"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:E96151AB1336F20530C17A387DDB68A4@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Don't laugh too hard...I did one in college where I forgot to divide by 27
> to get cubic yards instead of feet when dealing with pipe excavation.
Could
> have build the sewers out of gold I was so far off. :-$
>
> The UI in C3D is for an engineer to use. Not a dumb engineer, but a
properly
> trained, relatively computer literate engineer. For those that don't train
> their engineers to use the software, or consider them too dumb to use it,
> I'm happy. I'm happy to steal your clients when they realize how much
money
> you're wasting doing it old school.
>
> C3D is for engineers, accept that, and plan deployment/training
accordingly.
>
> --
> James Wedding, P.E.
> IT Manager
> Jones & Boyd, Inc.
> Dallas, TX
> XP/1 on P4-1.6/512
> LDT2004+C3D
>
>

[#6]

Agreed. I'm just tired of the complaints from people that (1) have never
actually used the software, even in preview state, (2) want it written to
the lowest common denominator.

CE isn't rocket science, but it's not simple additon either. I've said over
the years, that all things being equal, I'd rather teach an engineer to use
cad than teach a cad user to engineer. Here's hoping that we both get what
we need from the software when it ships in a final state.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
IT Manager
Jones & Boyd, Inc.
Dallas, TX
XP/1 on P4-1.6/512
LDT2004+C3D

[#7]

100% agreement here.

"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:2FDF4D2B8F1E11863EC4843A31F5F5A9@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Agreed. I'm just tired of the complaints from people that (1) have never
> actually used the software, even in preview state, (2) want it written to
> the lowest common denominator.
>
> CE isn't rocket science, but it's not simple additon either. I've said
over
> the years, that all things being equal, I'd rather teach an engineer to
use
> cad than teach a cad user to engineer. Here's hoping that we both get what
> we need from the software when it ships in a final state.
>
> --
> James Wedding, P.E.
> IT Manager
> Jones & Boyd, Inc.
> Dallas, TX
> XP/1 on P4-1.6/512
> LDT2004+C3D
>
>

[#8]

No, you wouldn't be working with engineers like me because we don't need
your services. Seems like you're there primarily for the Goobers. I guess in
regard to your chosen field, you should be glad there are Goobers to serve.

Fred

[#9]

> The UI in C3D is for an engineer to use. Not a dumb engineer, but a
properly
> trained, relatively computer literate engineer. For those that don't train
> their engineers to use the software, or consider them too dumb to use it,
> I'm happy. I'm happy to steal your clients when they realize how much
money
> you're wasting doing it old school.

Hi James and all,

When you say "is for an engineer to use", does that mean it is beyond the
designer who isn't formally educated as an engineer? Since you use the term
"trained" as opposed to "educated", I assume that as a designer, I can
operate the software with my experience and training. The reason I ask is
that I'm currently pursuing purchasing LDT4 would like to test this C3D
gizmo. I do much of the design at my company before the PE takes over. If it
is above my head, then I will have to continue in the old school (LDT).

Thanks

Rick

[#10]

YES

--
Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.


"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:2FDF4D2B8F1E11863EC4843A31F5F5A9@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Agreed. I'm just tired of the complaints from people that (1) have never
> actually used the software, even in preview state, (2) want it written to
> the lowest common denominator.
>
> CE isn't rocket science, but it's not simple additon either. I've said
over
> the years, that all things being equal, I'd rather teach an engineer to
use
> cad than teach a cad user to engineer. Here's hoping that we both get what
> we need from the software when it ships in a final state.
>
> --
> James Wedding, P.E.
> IT Manager
> Jones & Boyd, Inc.
> Dallas, TX
> XP/1 on P4-1.6/512
> LDT2004+C3D
>
>