Dynamic subassembly designer

[Anonymous]

It would be really cool if it were possible to combine subassemblies with
something similar to dynamic blocks to achieve some results that were a
little more dynamic with little or no programming. Ideally, we could place
elements like an "alignment transition" or "profile reference" or
"superelevation region" into the subassembly and use those points to
calculate various offsets or elevations dynamically. Ideally, you could
also define user input parameters using a "subassembly designer" similar to
the dynamic block editor to pass various parameters from the user to the
"dynamic subassembly".


Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.

[cadtown]

Jon,

We have the Visual Subassembly Designer which can do exactly what you decribed. The Visual Subassembly Designer allows the C3D user to create just about any X-Sections including complex X-Sections with multiple alignments/profiles/superelevations without any programming. If you want a Demo please feel free to e-mail me at inyi@yahoo.com. I am also going to be at the Boot Camp in Dallas if you want to see it there.

Peter,

[Anonymous]

Please track me down at Bootcamp, I'd love to chat about your product, it
sounds quite intriguing.

E-mail me james.wedding @ either domain below, and I'll send you my cell
number.

Thanks.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[Anonymous]

Hi Jon,

were you also looking for the subgrade and pavement layers to be created as well?

Peter Bloomfield

[Anonymous]

Good morning, Doctor.

I think he's looking for something that will basically interpret drawings
and create VBA, allowing you to create functions and logic without knowing
how to code the subassemblies. I know John can code them, but the idea has
been bandied about quite a bit.

Essentially an expert system that would take specs and code them as VBA. It
would be quite a coup, and I'd bet that Autodesk would be very interested if
someone managed it. I've had numerous discussions on the subject with
them....

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[Anonymous]

James,

I am not sure that there is any necessity to automatically create the code.

It is very easy to take a standard template (created in any number of ways) and set up a program so that it knows about widenings, super etc etc. You can even make it so that you can add/subtract bits and pieces (e.g. for parking or buses).

This can all take place as a "smart" subassembly, which would take the place of most of the roadway, sidewalk and kerb assemblies currently in civil3d.

The bit that is hardest to do is to build some "logic" into the pavement layers and the subgrade. While ever you just have layers that have the same horizontal extents of the surface sections there is no problem. If you want layers that are "L" shaped or inverted "U" or sideways "U" then it is very difficult to code them simply and keep them in sync with the surface points.

The easiest way is to draw it, but you still have to do something special if the subgrade layers do not keep their relativity to the surface when you have superelevation or transitions.

I have "played" around with this a little. I used the existing Advanced Road Design template and subgrade system to generate offsets and levels in a file. I then read in this file and recreated the road sections in the civil3d corridor (taking into account transitions, super, as well as a complex layering for the subgrade).

The real question is is there sufficient demand for a "smart" assembly to make it easier for the advanced user, when you can achieve exactly the same thing by piecing together a number of subassemblies and using the product out of the box.

Let me know if you think that this is worth pursuing. It is not hard to do and if it would (a) make it easier to use civil 3d and (b) save designers time and (c) have enough people buy it to justify the development time, I would be happy to develop the code.

On another topic, I notice that quite a few people are asking for volumes computed directly from the corridor model, rather than creating layers etc etc. Is this item worth pursuing?

Peter Bloomfield

[Anonymous]

snip>On another topic, I notice that quite a few people are asking for
volumes computed directly from the corridor model, rather than creating
layers etc etc. Is this item worth pursuing?

As long as it had a Dynamic nature - I would assume that to be a
pre-requisite for anything being considered for inclusion into C3D.

And please pardon my "butting-in".

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
WD 36GB Raptor



wrote in message news:5129705@discussion.autodesk.com...
James,

I am not sure that there is any necessity to automatically create the code.

It is very easy to take a standard template (created in any number of ways)
and set up a program so that it knows about widenings, super etc etc. You
can even make it so that you can add/subtract bits and pieces (e.g. for
parking or buses).

This can all take place as a "smart" subassembly, which would take the
place of most of the roadway, sidewalk and kerb assemblies currently in
civil3d.

The bit that is hardest to do is to build some "logic" into the pavement
layers and the subgrade. While ever you just have layers that have the same
horizontal extents of the surface sections there is no problem. If you want
layers that are "L" shaped or inverted "U" or sideways "U" then it is very
difficult to code them simply and keep them in sync with the surface points.

The easiest way is to draw it, but you still have to do something special if
the subgrade layers do not keep their relativity to the surface when you
have superelevation or transitions.

I have "played" around with this a little. I used the existing Advanced
Road Design template and subgrade system to generate offsets and levels in
a file. I then read in this file and recreated the road sections in the
civil3d corridor (taking into account transitions, super, as well as a
complex layering for the subgrade).

The real question is is there sufficient demand for a "smart" assembly to
make it easier for the advanced user, when you can achieve exactly the same
thing by piecing together a number of subassemblies and using the product
out of the box.

Let me know if you think that this is worth pursuing. It is not hard to do
and if it would (a) make it easier to use civil 3d and (b) save designers
time and (c) have enough people buy it to justify the development time, I
would be happy to develop the code.

On another topic, I notice that quite a few people are asking for volumes
computed directly from the corridor model, rather than creating layers etc
etc. Is this item worth pursuing?

Peter Bloomfield

[Anonymous]

What I was envisioning is not necessarily something that creates VBA, but
rather to make it possible to build subassemblies from components with
certain calculations built into them. It would be a "dynamic point code".
Rather than having a VBA macro that returns static point at each section,
the program would process certain "dynamic point codes" instead of "static
point codes" at each location. For example, rather than specifying the x &
y of two point codes, you would specify the x & y of one point code. The
other code would be a dynamic point code, which accepts as input the
"starting point" a reference alignment and a cross slope, relative elevation
or reference profile.

The "dynamic VBA" that you described would be a good way for a 3rd party
developer to accomplish this. What I am suggesting would require some
architectural changes to point codes. I think the process that I detailed
above would make it work more like AutoCAD's dynamic block editor. You
specify "behaviors" instead of point codes, and the shapes and links could
be defined using any combination of dynamic or static point codes.


Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.


"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:5129692@discussion.autodesk.com...
Good morning, Doctor.

I think he's looking for something that will basically interpret drawings
and create VBA, allowing you to create functions and logic without knowing
how to code the subassemblies. I know John can code them, but the idea has
been bandied about quite a bit.

Essentially an expert system that would take specs and code them as VBA. It
would be quite a coup, and I'd bet that Autodesk would be very interested if
someone managed it. I've had numerous discussions on the subject with
them....

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[cadtown]

Jon,

You are absolutely right and are thinking in the right direction.
A "dynamic VBA" creator is not a realistic or practical solution since the user has to learn another language (even if it is a graphic language) to translate the codes into VBA. When I saw Civil 3D for the first time, I saw where the bottleneck is going to be - subassembly. The designers would want to have a complete freedom to draw any points, links and shapes and establish any type of relationship.

Also, in road design (especially reconstruction job where designer has to deal with existing conditions/structures), there are many cases which can not be controlled by programming logic, and only can be edited manually section by section. Some people may disagree but it is true.

The subassembly designer I was talking about is very flexible graphic application which allows the user to freely draw points and links which can interact not only with one another but also with Civil 3D objects (Alignments, Profiles, Surfaces, superelevation, etc.). I then created one master subassembly which translates all points/links/shapes to from the custom Viewer/Editor to a corridor model. This way the user doesn't have to deal with logical names mapping or regions, and the corridor model is still fully dynamic even after deleting/adding points and links.

Recently, I was able to win a couple of big accounts because of this custom application.

Peter,

[Anonymous]

Sounds really cool. Any chance I can get a look at it? Contact me offline.
Thanks.

Jon



wrote in message news:5151175@discussion.autodesk.com...
Jon,

You are absolutely right and are thinking in the right direction.
A "dynamic VBA" creator is not a realistic or practical solution since the
user has to learn another language (even if it is a graphic language) to
translate the codes into VBA. When I saw Civil 3D for the first time, I
saw where the bottleneck is going to be - subassembly. The designers would
want to have a complete freedom to draw any points, links and shapes and
establish any type of relationship.

Also, in road design (especially reconstruction job where designer has to
deal with existing conditions/structures), there are many cases which can
not be controlled by programming logic, and only can be edited manually
section by section. Some people may disagree but it is true.

The subassembly designer I was talking about is very flexible graphic
application which allows the user to freely draw points and links which can
interact not only with one another but also with Civil 3D objects
(Alignments, Profiles, Surfaces, superelevation, etc.). I then created one
master subassembly which translates all points/links/shapes to from the
custom Viewer/Editor to a corridor model. This way the user doesn't have to
deal with logical names mapping or regions, and the corridor model is still
fully dynamic even after deleting/adding points and links.

Recently, I was able to win a couple of big accounts because of this custom
application.

Peter,

[Anonymous]

Hi Peter,

Like Jon I'd be very interested in looking at this and testing it for you.

My email (if needed) can be constructed from
givenname.surname@company.com.au

Maybe it would be easier for you to post a link where the program could be
downloaded.


--

Regards,


Laurie Comerford
www.cadapps.com.au

wrote in message news:5151175@discussion.autodesk.com...
Jon,

You are absolutely right and are thinking in the right direction.
A "dynamic VBA" creator is not a realistic or practical solution since the
user has to learn another language (even if it is a graphic language) to
translate the codes into VBA. When I saw Civil 3D for the first time, I
saw where the bottleneck is going to be - subassembly. The designers would
want to have a complete freedom to draw any points, links and shapes and
establish any type of relationship.

Also, in road design (especially reconstruction job where designer has to
deal with existing conditions/structures), there are many cases which can
not be controlled by programming logic, and only can be edited manually
section by section. Some people may disagree but it is true.

The subassembly designer I was talking about is very flexible graphic
application which allows the user to freely draw points and links which can
interact not only with one another but also with Civil 3D objects
(Alignments, Profiles, Surfaces, superelevation, etc.). I then created one
master subassembly which translates all points/links/shapes to from the
custom Viewer/Editor to a corridor model. This way the user doesn't have to
deal with logical names mapping or regions, and the corridor model is still
fully dynamic even after deleting/adding points and links.

Recently, I was able to win a couple of big accounts because of this custom
application.

Peter,

[cadtown]

Laurie,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your posting - I have been very busy and do not check this forum too often.
Yes, the program is quite ready for download and for real action, but the full documentation & tutorials are yet to be created.

I have just finished another one-day training on the software and so far everyone who saw and used it has been saying the same thing: IMPRESSIVE !. I must also admit that one-day or even a half-day training is a must before using the software.

You can e-mail me a sample Civil 3D dwg file with any design X-section (+Surface, alignments & profiles) and I can quickly create the templates & corridor model and send the dwg file back to you along with a trial version of the program so that it is easier for you to understand & test it.

Peter,

[cadtown]

Laurie,

There is a demo version which you can download with the some tutorials. Check it out at www.cadtown.com

Peter,

[Anonymous]

Hi Peter,

Thanks.

I'll forward comments privately if they are constructive/rude, publicly
otherwise.

--

Regards,


Laurie Comerford
www.cadapps.com.au

wrote in message news:5167971@discussion.autodesk.com...
Laurie,

There is a demo version which you can download with the some tutorials.
Check it out at www.cadtown.com

Peter,

[koernerj]

Hello,

I wanted to let you know of a new product that my company has just released that allows you to create custom parametric .NET subassemblies for AutoCAD Civil 3D without programming. The application is called Subassembly Studio.

The subassemblies created by Subassembly Studio are real .NET subassemblies that behave like and are used in exactly the same manner as any conventionally developed subassembly. With it, you can create a custom subassembly that might take a developer one to several days to build, test, and package for deployment in about 5-30 minutes depending on complexity. You can also export your custom subassembly catalogs and deploy them in a single command. The export process creates the tool catalog (ATC) file, a custom dynamically generated DLL, and all other files necessary to use the subassemblies. Once the subassemblies are exported and deployed, all you have to do before using the subassemblies is to load the catalog into AutoCAD Civil 3D and add the subassemblies to your tool palette.

Subassemblies are built in a managed environment using menu and dialog driven COGO commands that are simple and intuitive. You can define input, output, and target parameters for the subassemblies, and use these parameters to control your custom geometry. You can also insert conditional logic into the subassemblies that enables the subassembly to react to corridor model conditions and build alternate geometries (even 'roll back' to a previous point and replace the targeted portion of the current geometry with some alternate geometry). Logical name targets and superelevation are fully supported.

You can download product information and a trial version of Subassembly Studio from our website:

http://www.cadartisans.com

J. Adam Koerner
Cad Artisans LLC

[Anonymous]

Hello koernerj,
Sounds interesting but don't see where you can download trial version or
pricing information.

Thanks,
Mike

> Hello,
>
> I wanted to let you know of a new product that my company has just
> released that allows you to create custom parametric .NET
> subassemblies for AutoCAD Civil 3D without programming. The
> application is called Subassembly Studio.
>
> The subassemblies created by Subassembly Studio are real .NET
> subassemblies that behave like and are used in exactly the same manner
> as any conventionally developed subassembly. With it, you can create
> a custom subassembly that might take a developer one to several days
> to build, test, and package for deployment in about 5-30 minutes
> depending on complexity. You can also export your custom subassembly
> catalogs and deploy them in a single command. The export process
> creates the tool catalog (ATC) file, a custom dynamically generated
> DLL, and all other files necessary to use the subassemblies. Once the
> subassemblies are exported and deployed, all you have to do before
> using the subassemblies is to load the catalog into AutoCAD Civil 3D
> and add the subassemblies to your tool palette.
>
> Subassemblies are built in a managed environment using menu and dialog
> driven COGO commands that are simple and intuitive. You can define
> input, output, and target parameters for the subassemblies, and use
> these parameters to control your custom geometry. You can also insert
> conditional logic into the subassemblies that enables the subassembly
> to react to corridor model conditions and build alternate geometries
> (even 'roll back' to a previous point and replace the targeted portion
> of the current geometry with some alternate geometry). Logical name
> targets and superelevation are fully supported.
>
> You can download product information and a trial version of
> Subassembly Studio from our website:
>
> http://www.cadartisans.com
>
> J. Adam Koerner
> Cad Artisans LLC

[Anonymous]

Hello Michael,
Never mind, I found the link. Scrolled past it too fast.

> Hello koernerj,
> Sounds interesting but don't see where you can download trial version
> or
> pricing information.
> Thanks,
> Mike
>> Hello,
>>
>> I wanted to let you know of a new product that my company has just
>> released that allows you to create custom parametric .NET
>> subassemblies for AutoCAD Civil 3D without programming. The
>> application is called Subassembly Studio.
>>
>> The subassemblies created by Subassembly Studio are real .NET
>> subassemblies that behave like and are used in exactly the same
>> manner as any conventionally developed subassembly. With it, you can
>> create a custom subassembly that might take a developer one to
>> several days to build, test, and package for deployment in about 5-30
>> minutes depending on complexity. You can also export your custom
>> subassembly catalogs and deploy them in a single command. The export
>> process creates the tool catalog (ATC) file, a custom dynamically
>> generated DLL, and all other files necessary to use the
>> subassemblies. Once the subassemblies are exported and deployed, all
>> you have to do before using the subassemblies is to load the catalog
>> into AutoCAD Civil 3D and add the subassemblies to your tool palette.
>>
>> Subassemblies are built in a managed environment using menu and
>> dialog driven COGO commands that are simple and intuitive. You can
>> define input, output, and target parameters for the subassemblies,
>> and use these parameters to control your custom geometry. You can
>> also insert conditional logic into the subassemblies that enables the
>> subassembly to react to corridor model conditions and build alternate
>> geometries (even 'roll back' to a previous point and replace the
>> targeted portion of the current geometry with some alternate
>> geometry). Logical name targets and superelevation are fully
>> supported.
>>
>> You can download product information and a trial version of
>> Subassembly Studio from our website:
>>
>> http://www.cadartisans.com
>>
>> J. Adam Koerner
>> Cad Artisans LLC