Description Key Export/Import

[Anonymous]

I have seen many posts requesting changes to the Description Keys setup.  How about a way to import or export your keys to a file format of .xls, csv or txt file for backup/restore purposes.  I know you can import a setup from LDD but this method still requires some manipulation.  And I know you can save your keys to your project template.  What if your template drawing get corrupted or deleted by accident?  I think I may be able to retrieve keys from another project, but this process needs to be easier.  To some this Description Key setup is like gold.  To me this is to important of a setup process that all your eggs should be put in one basket.

[Jeff_M]

Would something like this work for you?

[stacy.dunn]

Jeff,

Is the xml generator code something you are willing to share?

[Jeff_M]

That image was taken as I was writing the extractor tool. I'm still working on the import portion, but plan to post a "no-frills", no support, version shortly. There will be 4 versions, 1 each for C3D 2009-2012, and are .NET dll files.

By "no-frills" I mean that it will extract all DescriptionKeySets and their keys from the current dwg to a designated XML file. The Import command will then Import all of the Sets in an XML file into any other drawing, overwriting any Sets having the same name. Note that the XML format will allow you to Export the Sets from a 2012 dwg, then turnaround and Import them to a 2009, 2010, or 2011 dwg.

A future version of SincpacC3D will contain a more robust Import command, allowing selection of which Set, or Sets, to Import and whether to overwite, merge, or rename same-named Sets.

Sound good?

[billneu08]

If you want anyone to help debug this just let me know? Keep in mind that desc keys in c3d heavly rely on the pt style to control the layering. So for this to work properly you will need to be able to export and import the coresponding pt styles.

Love the idea hope you can get it to work!

Bill Neuhauser P.E.

Civil/Application Engineer

Managed Design Inc.

Edina Mpls.

[Anonymous]

Jeff, I had given up on this post.  In my opinion, AutoDESK will NEVER add such a feature to Civil3D.  To me seeing is believing with new versions of software, everybody figured that out with AutoCAD release 13 and all the bugs that it had.  Your program sounds good and if you can get it to work, that would be great for the Surveying community. 

I, like others in the Civil3D forum, like to work within Civil3D to get what I need to get things done.  I have seen that tool pac you are talking about, but I will never pay out of my pocket for such a tool for the workplace.  I have done that in my younger days only to have the boss whine and complain on how long it takes to complete a project and when it comes time for a raise, to get short changed.  I have written all kinds of lisp programs to speed up my drafting speed and efficiency.  When it comes to preformance reviews by Project Managers/Engineers, I am told I am too fast with the tasks given to me and that they can't keep up with me to try to keep me busy.  But when a problem occurs when I am not in the office, I get chastized the next day because they couldn't get things done and out to the client.  I am nobody's escape goat, but being the token hispanic in the office in Mexican bashing Arizona I just go with the flow because what ever I do or say I know I will never change their "white hood wearing" attitude.  I am not Mexican, I was born in this country, so I am as American as any other American in this country.  I know this has no bearing on the program you are trying to write but like I stated before I will NEVER pay for something out of my pocket.  I strive to learn what the software I am using can and can not do so when the boss/supervisor comes and ask me if I can do this or do that.  Only to see them run back to their office when I say no, but I know of such a third party program that can.  It's a useless battle, and the stress just isn't worth it.  I bought my own version of AutoCAD once only to have a boss ask me if they could get a bootleg version of the software because my version was newer than theirs.  That's sad.  But it is what it is. 

Sorry for the rant portion but sometimes you have to explain certain things for people to understand your stance on a subject.  I am old school, respect is EARNED and not automaticly given.  Good luck with your program, I truly hope you can get it to work as you'd like.  I will keep trudging along with the shortcomings that Civil3D has or will have in the future if I ever get back working again in the engineering community.

[Jeff_M]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I, like others in the Civil3D forum, like to work within Civil3D to get what I need to get things done.

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Forgive me, but I have a real hard time following this logic. Why use C3D at all? After all, AutoCAD will draw lines, arcs, polylines, and text at a fraction of the cost of C3D. In fact, if it wasn't for third party tools developed for use with AutoCAD, C3D would likely not be where it is today (think DCA add-on for AutoCAD R2.5 & R9). C3D does a lot of things, but like any other AEC CAD program, it doesn't do everything for everyone. The beauty of C3D is that it CAN be customized, unlike some other Civil/Survey programs out there.

Consider your local mechanic....he bought a toolbox full of SnapOn tools with every tool he needs. Until Chevy came out with a new model that needs a special wrench to change the tie-rod ends. SnapOn does not have this tool available, but another, not-so-well-known tool company does. Now, the job CAN be done using a large crescent wrench instead of that special tool... at the cost of 2-3 times the time it takes using the correct tool. Think he'd stay employed if he did NOT buy the special tool? Granted, mechanics are expected to provide their own tools, but if you expand this to be a Civil/Survey company instead of the individual mechanic, the same holds true.....your clients see that another firm can do the same job faster, who will they be going to in the future?

I've been fortunate enough to only work in firms that WANT it's employees to reccommend ways to be more productive, so maybe I'm a bit spoiled. But after nearly 40 years in the business I can't see why there are any firms left that don't think like this, they should have been weeded out long ago.

Back to the Export/Import addons...I have these completed and am just doing some testing to be sure they work in different configurations. They should be made available sometime in the next week, or so. Again, these are free, no registration required...just download and follow the included instructions.

@BIll, no there are no style export/import capabilities. The user IS notified if the defined style/labelstyles are not found in the current drawing during import, but set to use the "<default>". They can then go back and copy the styles (if from same version or from older to newer) using a variety of methods/tools, or recreate them if going to an older version. Then re-import the Keysets. If I get some free time to work out the details, this MAY be something I could add in the future.

[Bill.Neuhauser]

@Jeff_M

Keep in mind the pt style controls what layers the Maker and Labels go on.  The layer call out within the desc keys is the layer the the whole point goes on and not the layer that each component goes on. And while the corresponding Label style has a call out for layer in the general tab this is just a duplicate of the component within the pt style, so this is just left to layer zero. (easier to control this from within the pt style)

SO to get your pts to work as easy as they can a good desc key is a must. Some people will try to use pt groups to do the same but who wants 150 pts groups in a dwg sucking all of your resources?

The real key is that within the pt style the Marker component layer is set to the same layer that the whole point is going onto. This way one can still use a layer isolate command and pick the pt within the dwg and have only the pt makers of the pt be now viable while all other pts and text are turned off (since they are on different layers). This is real helpful in day to day work when users need to isolate pts to connect the dots when doing topo work. One added feature it to add a prefix to the layer names -T, -M, -S   (text,marker, symbol) this way one can easily create a layer filter to only show the text layers or Symbol layers if they wish to do so.

One a side not I taught a descriptions key class at AU a few years back and helped Robert Steltman create his desc key import tool that he sales.

Bill Neuhauser P.E.

Managed Design inc.

[Anonymous]

You're preaching to the choir here Sir.  I have been in the business for 30 years myself, but you also have to remember a designer/drafter pay is a lot different than an engineers.  And at the end of year its the Engineer who get a bonus and the designer doesn't because they get overtime.  I have gone in at 6:00 am and work until 8-9 pm, while the engineer comes in anywhere from 8:30 to 9:30 am and leaves at 6 pm because the wife is calling or has to leave the office during the day to pick up their kids.  Hello! the designer doesn't have a family too?  Both are just as important to get the job done, but its also the attitude you represent if you love your job, like I do.  But you get tired of banging your head against the wall and you say to yourself this is not my company and I can only be as good as the tools I am provided to complete such tasks.

Scenerio:  I am asked by my boss to dig a hole 20'x20'x10' deep and he wants it done in four hours.  Then he give me a shovel.  I don't think so!!!!  Rent me a backhoe and no problem, task completion possible.

[Jeff_M]

Attached is a ZIP file wth 4 DLL's (one each for C3D 2009-2012) and a text file explaining their use. Enjoy!

[OMCUSNR]

Thanks Jeff - Looking forward to giving this a look!!

Reid

[jnelson]

Jeff,

Forgive the ignorance, but where/how do I install the dll file for Civil 3D 2012? dll files are foreign to me but I am looking for a way to export our desc key codes in a format that I can then bring them into our Topcon GRS-1 GPS unit.

Thanks,

Josh

[Jeff_M]

Just save it to a folder where you know where to find it. In C3D type in NETLOAD, browse to the folder you saved it to and select the dll, hit OK. Now the command will be available in C3D for the entire session.

If you have a specific need (i.e. I'm not sure the output format I used will do much good for importing to Topcon software) let me know and I'l see what we can do. jeffm AT quuxsoft DOT com

[jnelson]

Jeff,

Thanks for the response...I appolgize for the previous post, I realized after you had included instructions in the help txt file. However I get the following message after trying to load the command

Command: NETLOAD Cannot load assembly. Error details: System.IO.FileLoadException: Could not load file or assembly 'file:///C:\Program Files\Common Files\Autodesk Shared\C3DDescriptionKeys.dll' or one of its dependencies. Operation is not supported. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80131515) File name: 'file:///C:\Program Files\Common Files\Autodesk Shared\C3DDescriptionKeys.dll' ---> System.NotSupportedException: An attempt was made to load an assembly from a network location which would have caused the assembly to be sandboxed in previous versions of the .NET Framework. This release of the .NET Framework does not enable CAS policy by default, so this load may be dangerous. If this load is not intended to sandbox the assembly, please enable the loadFromRemoteSources switch. See http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=155569 for more information.    at System.Reflection.RuntimeAssembly._nLoad(AssemblyName fileName, String codeBase, Evidence assemblySecurity, RuntimeAssembly locationHint, StackCrawlMark& stackMark, Boolean throwOnFileNotFound, Boolean forIntrospection, Boolean suppressSecurityChecks)    at System.Reflection.RuntimeAssembly.InternalLoadAssemblyName(AssemblyName assemblyRef, Evidence assemblySecurity, StackCrawlMark& stackMark, Boolean forIntrospection, Boolean suppressSecurityChecks)    at System.Reflection.RuntimeAssembly.InternalLoadFrom(String assemblyFile, Evidence securityEvidence, Byte[] hashValue, AssemblyHashAlgorithm hashAlgorithm, Boolean forIntrospection, Boolean suppressSecurityChecks, StackCrawlMark& stackMark)    at System.Reflection.Assembly.LoadFrom(String assemblyFile)    at Autodesk.AutoCAD.Runtime.ExtensionLoader.Load(String fileName)    at loadmgd()

[Jeff_M]

2 posible things come to mind. 

First, the DLL cannot reside on a network drive, it must be local to the machine being run on. This is a Microsoft security issue.

If the above is not the case, in Windows7 when you download a file it gets a 'hold' placed on the file. You must release that hold before you can use it. This is another Microsoft security 'feature'. This must be done for the ZIP file BEFORE extracting the dll's.

[jnelson]

Thanks Jeff. it was the later of the two solutions that fixed my problem