BIM: Solid Materials please!

[el_nath]

I'd like for Civil 3D to be more BIM like.  Currently the only BIM-lite objects in Civil 3D are the pipe networks.  I'd like for solid materials to be defined by:

1. one or two surfaces with/without boundary, e.g. for cut and fill materials, site grading pavers, etc...

2. Corridor links; replace shapes with a virtual extruded solid material that can show up in any section view despite different baseline alignments.

A corridor/grading object is a civil engineering design object but is not a virtual construction/BIM object. Contractors don't build roads out of points, links and shapes, they build road out of asphalt and concrete.  It's is one thing to use a corridor to define a roadway given certain parameters, however, we need virtual materials with various properties (construction stage, density, material type, item number, etc...) that should be dynamically linked to the corridors/grading.  Such solid materials, should be displayed in the Prospector and a materials list should be able to be generated from these virtual solids.

Right now Civil 3D is a civil engineering design tool and is not fully the BIM program that Autodesk claims it is.  I look forward to Civil 3D becoming a full part of the BIM revolution, without having to rely on Revit Architecture/Structure/MEP.

The BIM process should be able to work when one is using only Civil 3D.

I call the pipe networks BIM-lite because while you can see the pipe wall thickness in profile and section views, you cannot see the slab, base, and wall thickness of the structures.  Not cool.

[jmatthei]

Agreed 100%.  C3D is not yet a BIM application.

Also I'd like to see surface solids in non-corridor applications.  I'm not going to create 35 corridors to model an irregular parking lot that can be done in 10% of the time with feature lines, and I'd like to set solid surfaces based on areas much like a hatch pattern.

I'm told LandCAD by EaglePoint does this, and that EaglePoint is now an Autodesk affiliate - does this mean the functionality may finally be coming?  Or does this mean we need to shell out more money for a 3rd-party product?  (Until such time as a competitor makes a complete package.)

Jeremy

[el_nath]

I've tested out the Bridge Modeler from Autodesk Labs and has raised some interesting possibilies and questions in my mind.

1. Bridges are modeled with 3D solids, indicating that the capability for BIM materials is within the product; it's just not being utilized.

2. AEC mass elements and AEC polygons are a couple of the tools in the AutoCAD verticals that should be integrated into CIvil 3D.

My wish is that Civil 3D can make use of some of the already existing features in the AEC verticals, so that when I cut my sections (or profiles), I can see material styles (similar to the AEC polygons that can have an edge hatch!), no matter what alignment my sections are cutting.  The edge hatches will come in handy for visualizing numerous soil and bedrock layers without the section view/profile view becomming a mess of hatches.  Edge hatches have other uses such as watershed hatch surface styles, etc.

AutoCAD Civil 3D seems to have all the pieces for a truely BIM experience, but they aren't being utilized to their fullest potential.  Maybe we'll just have to wait for Revit Civil? (I can't wait to say goodbye to layers!)

[peterfunkautodesk]

Cutting the corridor model to make sections at any angle and showing the material hatches will be part of the Civil 3D 2012 release.

Regards,

Peter Funk

Autodesk, Inc.

[jmatthei]

Some architects we work with are pressuring us to try to use Revit with Eaglepoint Siteworks for our sites.  We haven't seen it yet, but apparently it actually is more of a true BIM solution for the earthwork and paving, then LandCAD is a true BIM Revit addon for landscaping and site furnishings.  I'm not sure whether the engine is robust enough to handle a full detailed site, but it seems like within a few releases it probably would be.  Solids in corridors are nice, but we need them everywhere across a site.

The issue would be the utilities - we checked on a forum and apparently somebody was managing to make Revit MEP work for their site utilities, but said it was a little painful to do it, and in our office we don't have any Revit experience.  Of course the advantage is that everything in the site and building would be in one format - Revit.

Has anybody else tried this?  Is Revit MEP + Siteworks + LandCAD a valid solution for engineering and landscape architecture site design?

Jeremy

[granite07]

Revit has location properties and an ontology code library and properties (for example MasterFormat)

These two properties are really important for BIM and without them BIM is usually useless or so error prone and labor intensive that you might as well just build a 3D paper model and measure quantities from that with a triangular scale.

Right now my layers have names like R1.04.01.31.23.16.16

That simply means alignment one station block four retaining wall workzone. If C3D allowed assigning a locations hierarchy, then instead of having 12 layers for 31.23.16.16 I can represent structure excavation with one layer and modify the location. Also, the corridor locations are one block in Navisworks requiring 16 separate corridors to represent the mainline alighnment so ic an sequence this in the 4D model.

The catalog in C3D has some template chart of accounts but the assignment of codes is a bit clumsy and impossible when locations are added. Why must an object be selected by point and click with the mouse to assign a catalog item? There are very nice applications that will takeoff quantities from a revit model and organize those quantities by location and catalog code. This makes the schedule and estimate many magnitudes easier to construct, also there is less room for mistakes.