I am getting error 607...

[andyvicu]

I have ran an analysis and SSA gave me Error 607  on the report. It says "Inlet A9 gutter capture curve is not a valid curve."

A couple things I did different from the video lectures...

I selected user define for the Tc to figure out Q. i computed those monually

For the Inlets I have selected Maximum Capture Cutoff

There are some inlets in this model I created that do not capture 100% of the flow so i created conveyance links to account for the bypass flow.

Not sure why is not recognizing the Curve, can someone help?

[wfberry]

The User Guide goes on to explain this, but not too much.

"The storm drain inlet gutter capture curve in not properly defined."

That is the end of my knowledge, good luck.

Bill

[amit1304in · Accepted solution]

I think, I can help you if you can send file or inlet capature curve

[andyvicu]

sure...I am just learning the software so I am praticing with this file. I can't get it to run the analysis

This won't let me attach the SPF file...could I email it to you?

Let me know.

Thank you

[Matt.Anderson]

Rename the file extension to txt and attached the file.

Review that capture curve to be sure it is properly formed.

[andyvicu]

I selected Maximum runoff cutoff...I did not do a capture curve...is an area inlet behind a lot all of it should be captured by the inlet (per excel spread sheets)...I still went ahead and placed a bypass link otherwise I get more errors...is there any way I can call you and we can look at the file together?

[Matt.Anderson]

Error 607 is a Capture Curve problem for curve "Inlet A9".  It is not related to the uniform maximum runoff capture value you indicated.

I will assume you attempted to use or build a capture curve, but decided against it but you did not remove the curve.  Add a new inlet to the model, and select a capture curve to gain access to the capture curves in the model, open the editor, delete the curves, and then delete the inlet you added.

If you computed the natural capture performance in excel, it would be just as easy to paste that performance curve into SSA so you get the appropriate performance, and not a maximum capture.

[andyvicu]

Matt, I appreciate your comments

I have done this practice run for a project in that has already been completed. I am running SSA 2014. What is unique about our jurisdictions is that the city has its own requirements for a Q capacity on inlets. The customed equation here is based on the throat opening of the inlet (since they are standard here). It makes things easier. With this equation I can figure out how much flow the inlet can capture and how much will bypass.

I have been on SSA for 4 days now and I feel I have a fair grasp on things but I still do not master it…

Here are the questions and the file for this practice run I am doing on something that has already been completed. If you can help me clear up some of my issues and if I can get this thing running it would be a time saver since it seems like I have to use so many other programs to do different things. I feel I can use SSA to do it all…just have not figured it out.

1) Standard Inlet here is a 5’X4.’ The throat opening (longitudinally from inside of wall to inside of wall) is 5 feet. The height of the opening is 10 inches.  I looked around and the best option I could find is the FHWA HEC-22 generic with the Curb opening Inlet the only problem with this is that I can specify an opening length but I can’t specify a height…it is grayed out…what would be the best option in your opinion? Can I customize somewhere in the software and create an inlet for a specific jurisdiction?

Note:  The time of concentrations were manually calculated.

2) There are a couple area inlets in the middle of backyards that do not have any bypass flow (per spread sheet calculations)…I can’t run the system without a bypass link for some reason on these area inlets behind lots. So what I did is I created dummy bypass links and I just selected the direct option (for example see Inlet A9 to A8. If I know the bypass is zero, why does SSA not allow me to just run the flow from inlet to inlet?

3) There are a few inlets that I will be receiving bypass flow from upstream. On my first practice test I assumed 100% capture and I used dummy bypass links (since SSA was not letting me model without the bypass links). SSA was not liking it. So I went ahead and generated a curve for a our gutters. Is there any way I can manually input the known bypass without having SSA figuring it out?

4) I have a few inlets that are receiving flow from 2 upstream pipes as well as from one bypass link…when I select the bypass it does not give me issues but when I select the upstream roadway links the SSA software gives me many errors…when it says upstream roadway links it means pipes correct?

5) I went through the AECmentor training videos a few days and one of the examples covered bypass flow…the video was great but the person never really completed the exercise. She ran the analysis but never went too deep into the results. It seems in the example that SSA wants to run the entire flow through the bypass links or through the pipes but not both…I am not sure how it figures bypass flow…and I am not sure how to make it so it runs through the pipes first and whatever is not captured through the gutter.

Note: Connection between G1 and K5 does not exist. Is there so it can model the whole system without having to do two SSA models…

 My goal is to use SSA for all of the design not for just a part of it…I love excel and all the other software I use but if I can get it all designed and figured in SSA that would make life easier…don’t we all want that? I think i am really close to getting this to run...I have made many adjustments these past couple days...

Anyway, here is the file…I am going to take a break from this now and go through more SSA training videos.

Hope you can help.

Thank you in advance

[Matt.Anderson]

Andy -

1.)  SSA handles the inlet in the on-grade situation as weir flow as it is not expected to reach orifice flow conditions.  If the inlet is In Sag, the Curb Opening Height becomes available and the full range of the equations becomes available.   If the jurisdition has a custom rating system, the best bet would be to establish a set of custom curves that establish either the Gutter Flow to Capture or Gutter Depth to Capture ratios.   These custom curves can be saved, loaded, or build into a Part Matching Schema (advanced workflow) so that a C3D model directly results in the capture curve of your setting.

2.) On Grade inlets need bypass links.  On Sag inlets do not need a bypass link.  If you know bypass = zero, then turn it to a sag inlet.  The Roadway/gutter bypass link becomes uneditable when the inlet is in sag.

3.)  SSA is a dynamic system and the dual drainage path is part of the intent, especially overtime.  The gutter routing is part of the entire nature of the system. A single irregular cross-section geometry curve can be used to represent the roadway and gutter system in cross-section.  

4.)  On the Inlets dialog box, there is a Roadway/gutter bypass link drop down that allows the user to specify the outgoing link that is connected to the surface inlets bypass.  On the Roadway & Gutter Specification section, there is an Upstream roadway links dropdown that allows you to specify the bypass link incoming.   This adds the prior inlets bypass flow to any subbasin flow is directed to the inlet so that gutter spread can be determined appropriately. 

5.) SSA generates capture curves for each inlet geometry that is entered, and for each time step, it determines the flow to the inlet, calculates the amount of flow captured, adds it to the downstream pipe (Roadway/Gutter bypass link), and allows the bypass flow to continue on its merry way.  All the while solving the St. Venant equations... (momentum, continuity...)

Hope this helps.   Feel free to ask here or open a support request for any other questions.

[andyvicu]

This is great! Thank you Matt! Gutter Depth capture curves would work well...thank you...I am getting closer...one thing I see now that's unique about the equations for inlet capacity here is that the equations are based on slope of the street (longitudinal) and inlet length...that makes things a bit complex is that the slope can vary. If it was based only on one factor it would be easy...but is not...I can create a curve for 1 specific slope like 1% or 2% but what if I have a 1.1% or what if the slope varies along the road? this is tricky.

[Matt.Anderson]

That is a small downfall to unique equations.  Can you send me or point me to your jurisdictions requirement spreadsheet?

[andyvicu]

Here you go...

How good are you at doing a mtrix? : )

This is fun, thanks for all your help

[andyvicu]

Any ideas on how I can modify SSA to our unique equations?