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why is the inquiry tool in imperial units in the metric template

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Message 1 of 16
granite07
2818 Views, 15 Replies

why is the inquiry tool in imperial units in the metric template

So I open my 2010 dwg file in C3D, zoom into a clearly delineated item (grid for retaining wall) and check that the scale is correct. The retaining wall grid is clearly graded with 1-meter marks. I select the inquiry tool from the analysis tab on the ribbon and mark the 62-meter mark and the 61-meter mark, and they are exactly 3'-3.37" apart; what does that mean.

 

So I open excel, search for "what is 1 meter in feet" then take the inquiry tool measurement 3'-3.37" and convert it into decimal 3.28' then multiply 1-meter by the conversion 3.28', there it is, 3.28' == 3.28', so I am good. Why is inquiry in imperial and not metric?

 

And for those that will go hey you scaled with 3 significant figures and can be way off, no I used excel and have 15 significant figures, for example I adjusted the scale a bit with 1.00000200000400

 

And, the response that will ask if this was created with a mtric template, yes it was created with the metric template.

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet
15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
BrianHailey
in reply to: granite07

Which inquiry type did you use on the Inquiry Tool Palette? My first thought is that you launched C3D using the imperial shortcut but I can't seem to reproduce it.

Brian J. Hailey, P.E.



GEI Consultants
My Civil 3D Blog

Message 3 of 16
granite07
in reply to: BrianHailey

I used the distance tool. If a new drawing is opened the measurement is correctly displayed as decimal. This drawing was created with C3D 2010 and almost certainly with the metric template (I remember talking about it and noted that this was important to start the file with the correct template).

 

inquiryTool2_metric.gif

inquiryTool_metric.gif

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet
Message 4 of 16
BrianHailey
in reply to: granite07

You're not using a Civil 3D tool to measure that, you're using the AutoCAD MEASUREGEOM command so changing the Civil 3D settings won't make a difference. Type UNITS at the command line and you'll probably see that the AutoCAD units are set to feet and the unit type is set to engineering.

 

Here's my guess as to what happened (and it truely is just a guess).

 

The drawing was created in a metric drawing, just as you said. Someone created a new drawing that had the units set to feet and inserted your drawing into it. That will scale all the stuff in the drawing from meters to feet. And this drawing was then "save as"d over your old drawing.

 

It does sound a bit far fetched after typing that so it was probably something else that happened.

Brian J. Hailey, P.E.



GEI Consultants
My Civil 3D Blog

Message 5 of 16
granite07
in reply to: BrianHailey

I am a researcher so had the joy of modeling all 75MB from day one to now; nobody could donate modeling expertise to the research project so I had to fulfill this role.

 

The UNITS command dialog box has length type set to engineering, the insertion scale set to meters, and I do not see anything about AutoCAD units.

 

About this time last year I was testing the AutoCAD civil 3D trying to understand the difference between metric and imperial, the capability of converting between these, what to model in, and general understanding about the programs units. Eventually I found a dialog box for some obscure item that had a unit of measure in inches, and when I closed this dialog and zoomed out there was the same item with the same measurement but now with a unit of measure in meter, so I then understood very well what the difference was. During the process it is conceivable I copied an early version of the model into an imperial template to see what happened, I do not recall this but it is possible.

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet
Message 6 of 16
granite07
in reply to: granite07

This is the video I made last year of a possible unit of measure inconsistency: http://granite.web.stanford.edu/civil3D_units.avi

 

Right now in decimal my 1-meter interval measures exactly 39.370 (the inches per meter) is this correct or should it be 1 in decimal for 1-meter?

 

You know, if I open this file in the imperial template of Civil 3D, everything is scaled correctly and the inquiry tool works correctly displaying the units in imperial units;the 1-meter interval is correctly measured as 3'-3.37" or  3.28'.

 

Now for my quantity takeoff, should I use the Metric template of the Imperial template; how does QTO Manager understand the units of measure and is it reading properties from the dwg file and so 'knows' it was built in a Metric template so measures a volume as 'metric' or is it blind to what template the file was built in and only knows it is now open in an Imperial template and so takes the quantites as Imperial. I will have to wait for Monday to test this.

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet
Message 7 of 16
BrianHailey
in reply to: granite07

Send me a drawing showing me the issue and I'll take a look at it. You can post it up here or I have a gmail account that starts with c3dplus.

Brian J. Hailey, P.E.



GEI Consultants
My Civil 3D Blog

Message 8 of 16
granite07
in reply to: BrianHailey

sample C3D file with imperial units in metric template

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet
Message 9 of 16
gccdaemon
in reply to: granite07

The inquiry tool is using a different set of units than the regular units. Use the -DWGUNITS command to set the actual C3D units in your drawing. This should get you what you need.

Andrew Ingram
Civil 3D x64 2019
Win 10 x64 Pro
Intel Xeon E5-1620
32 GB Ram
Message 10 of 16

For a metric drawing the "units" type should be set to "Decimal" and not "Engineering". That will take care of the display of the units in inches. (Engineering will be feet, inches and decimal inches vs Architectural that is feet, inches and fractional inches).

 

As far as the drawing units, it looks like things have gotten scaled somehow and I would just scale the drawing so that it is correct.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter Funk

Autodesk, Inc.



Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 11 of 16

Scale it to what exactly?

1) The scale is correct when opened in an Imperial units template,

2) when scaled in metric with the decimal unit of measure it is displayed as the correct inches that correlates with 1-meter; Right now in decimal my 1-meter interval measures exactly 39.370 (the inches per meter) is this correct or should it be 1 in decimal for 1-meter?

 

The solutions:

1) Are you confirming that this file must be scaled to 1/39.370079 for use in the metric template

2) If I takeoff the quantities in the Imperial template will it measure these in Imperial or try to measure in metric and convert to Imperial (I will test this today after lunch and post the results here but want to predict what to expect)

 

Is there any explanation for the video I posted?

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet
Message 12 of 16

I'm not sure what problem are you trying to solve, but here is some information:

 

1. Pick a unit, convert everything to that and stick with it.

2. In Civil 3D 1 is a foot in imperial drawings, and 1 is a meter in metric drawings. The conversion between the two depends on if the foot is a US Survey foot or an internationa foot. Civil 3D is not designed to work with either inches or mm as the base unit.

3. I think that QTO assumes that the unit of drawing is the same as the unit of measure in the database. I know that on the fly conversion was not something that we built into it. You can apply formulas to all the takeoffs, but matching units is a better idea.

 

Regards,

 

Peter Funk

Autodesk, Inc.



Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 13 of 16

sorry to continually ask the same question,

 

what scale is the metric model since the current scale appears correct with a decimal measurement of 39.370, or should this be 1; as in 1-inch?

 

Also, why is my measurement in imperial units when the template is metric, shouldn't it display this as 39.370-meter?

 

Last, 'on-the-fly' conversion will be nice in the future since the Civil subcontractor's field crews can view their plans on their tablet viewers in the unit of measure they are accustomed to. The electrical subs may think in metric while the earthwork guys think in Imperial, or to them 'normal' units. And, from region toregion the project units change, if the design team likes metric and the construction crew likes Imperial, should not there be a toggle button to view the units (it is just numbers, the object geometry does not change, it is slightly more source code changes than the current solution of almost zero). Picking a unit and sticking with it is a convenient answer but not so easy when the world cannot accomplish this. Your time answering this is appreciated and in your way you have clarified the answer, thank you.

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet
Message 14 of 16

In that drawing your units were Metric, but the AutoCAD units were set to "Engineering" which is an Imperial type. What you were seeing is a metric value displayed as if it were feet and inches. In Civil 3D, the only AutoCAD unit that we use is "Decimal", and the only units we use are the foot (two types) and the meter.

 

As far as on the fly conversion. There are ways to label the project in different units based on style, but typically a project is designed in a unit. For the US the typical lane is 12' and we use a set of design speeds and radius that are all based on imperial units. In other places, the typically lane width is 3.5 or 4 meters and the design speeds are based on km.

 

As far as mixed units within a project, while we could spend more time on making it work even better, this work flow would only be used by a very small group of customers and I'd rather focus development and testing in other areas.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter Funk

Autodesk, Inc.



Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 15 of 16

Valid points.

 

If the units are metric and I set the AutoCAD units to "Engineering" with the command UNITS, and therefore the metric value is displayed as if it were feet and inches (in decimal units it displays 39.370), then how do I change it to display the value as the correct metric value?

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet
Message 16 of 16
granite07
in reply to: granite07

I compiled this thread and a couple other threads with several tests, the results are posted here

 

http://civil3d.wikia.com/wiki/Civil_3D_Modelspace_Units
http://cife.stanford.edu/wiki/doku.php?id=granite:3dmodelling:modelspaceunits

Forest Peterson, granite@stanford.edu; build-sheet

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