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shoulder slope subassembly

13 REPLIES 13
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Message 1 of 14
nostupidquestions
2234 Views, 13 Replies

shoulder slope subassembly

i need a shoulder subassembly that varies slope in relation to the lane superelevation slope. i know that i can get a subassembly for the shoulder that will follow the alignment superelevation xml data but in my case i can't use it because we are just adding a shoulder to an existing road. we're not changing the superelevation of the existing road, just milling and overlaying and widening. right now i've created a profile of the outside edge of the shoulder that gives me the correct shoulder slope but whenever i change my centerline profile i have to redo the shoulder profiles which is a real time suck. i was going to try building a subassembly using the composer but i haven't had much sucess trying to learn it.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
13 REPLIES 13
Message 2 of 14

Would the GenericPavementStructure work where you just use the adjacent lane slope as the input for the slope of your shoulder via the Assembly Properties/Construction tab?

 

Mike Robertson
FL. Dept. of Transportation
CADD Applications Developer
Message 3 of 14
sboon
in reply to: nostupidquestions

First of all - that has to be the most annoying design standard that I've ever seen. Smiley Mad

 

The only thing I can suggest is that you look at the Subassembly Composer.  You should be able to set up the conditional tests in there to accommodate the various slopes.

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 4 of 14
fcernst
in reply to: nostupidquestions

Yes, this would be great to do in SAC, my first choice.

 

I could also see you doing this with the Conditional Cut/Fill subassembly. You would have a flat reference surface using your centerline profile, and then you would test for Cut depth at the edge of road to effectively determine your lane cross slope, then exectute the desired Shoulder Assembly scenario for that range of Cut.



Fred Ernst, PE
C3D 2024
Ernst Engineering
www.ernstengineering.com
Message 5 of 14
nostupidquestions
in reply to: fcernst

i think the subassembly composed is the best way to go because there are multiple conditions that affect the shoulder. i wanted to see how the overlaywidenmatchslope subassembly was made and maybe figure out how it worked or how to modify it but that's not possible. building the shoulder is subassembly composer is way beyond my skill set.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 6 of 14
sboon
in reply to: nostupidquestions

The SAC is actually easier to use than it looks at first, mainly because the documentation for the program isn't all that great.  Check out the AU site, look for classes by Kati Mercier.

 

If you ask nicely you might find someone here who can build a sub for you, or at least get it started. Smiley LOL

 

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 7 of 14
fcernst
in reply to: nostupidquestions

Let your project manager know the effort, the amount of project time,  it is taking you with every iteration of the centerline profile for this complex shoulder criteria. It is definitely very specific and consuming as Boon alludes to.

 

Then let your project manager know, there is someone here who can create a subassembly as a service, that you can easily attach to your assembly that it will meet the shoulder design requirements for the complete range of lane slopes shown, forever dynamically responsive to each iteration of the centerline profile.



Fred Ernst, PE
C3D 2024
Ernst Engineering
www.ernstengineering.com
Message 8 of 14

Maybe I am misinterpretting your assembly but are you modeling the overlaying with a subassembly already? If so you should be able to pass the slope that it uses through a Parameter Reference to the shoulder subassembly on the Construction tab of the Assembly Properties window. 

 

Of course I always enjoy an excuse to use SAC but there is also no need to recreate the wheel if there are already stock pieces that will do the job. 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 9 of 14
fcernst
in reply to: KMercier_C3D

True, but then what?

 

The shoulder slope varies as a function of the lane slope.



Fred Ernst, PE
C3D 2024
Ernst Engineering
www.ernstengineering.com
Message 10 of 14
KMercier_C3D
in reply to: fcernst

I had interpretted the original poster's problem as they needed a shoulder slope to match the slope used by the lane for each of the corridor sections, if so then a Parameter Reference is an ideal way to go. If it truly is "as a function of" meaning that it is not a matching slope then I agree that a more complex solution would be required. 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 11 of 14
fcernst
in reply to: KMercier_C3D

Right, that figure he posted, you may not have seen it, shows the OP's shoulder slope criteria is not a simple direct relationship to lane slope.

 

 



Fred Ernst, PE
C3D 2024
Ernst Engineering
www.ernstengineering.com
Message 12 of 14

thanks for all the input.

no, the shoulder doesn't match the lane slope all the time, only in certain instances where the lane slope is greater than 6%. between -1% and 6% the shoulder stays at 6%. from -1% to -5% the shoulder varies in relation to the lane slope. if the lane slope is -3.2% then the shoulder slope is 3.8%. at -6% and greater it becomes crowned. it is a pita. like i said, i've got a profile for the shoulder but any change in alignment or profile really becomes time consuming.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 13 of 14
KMercier_C3D
in reply to: fcernst

I stand corrected. I had missed the *.png that was posted. Definitely an ideal situation for SAC and really a rather simple one at that. I'd still use Parameter References though and have the shoulder SAC have an input parameter of the lane slope and then the shoulder is calculated and generated from there. 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 14 of 14
fcernst
in reply to: KMercier_C3D

Yes, that would work through most of the criteria range, except for those steep lane slopes at the top of the criteria range, where it looks like he has a crowned shoulder that is smoothed with a fillet, which SAC could easily handle.



Fred Ernst, PE
C3D 2024
Ernst Engineering
www.ernstengineering.com

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