"lock in" the annotation scaling of an xref

[tmcgivern]

Our survey department is now using civil3d to create topographic plans which we then xref into our civil design drawings. The survey's are typically drafted at 20 scale (1"=20'). If the civil design drawings require viewports at other scales (10 scale, 40 scale, etc.) then the civil3d objects including text in the survey xref changes to the scale of the viewport. This is a problem. For example, if the civil viewport is at 10 scale to show an enlargement of an area, the text in the survey xref shrinks to 10 scale (the scale of the viewport). We are looking for a way to "lock in" the xref at the intended scale that the survey was created in so it is a true background and not a dynamic part of the drawing. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Tim

[kcobabe]

I think your best bet is to have them save out to a generic AutoCAD drawing which will bring everything down to simple objects.

Would be nice if they added a lock when xrefed.

[tmcgivern]

Thank you for the suggestion. This does not work. The survey file is usually updated during the civil design process, so if it is changed or updated we want this to automatically happen. If your solution is the only option I will be very disappointed!

Tim

[tmcgivern]

I'm surprised at the lack of response here. My gut tells me this is a really simple thing. I imagine there are civil firms all over the world that are running into this problem. We've been experimenting with some of the system variables, and the properties of the viewport, and still no luck. The prodcution of civil drawings at a different scale than the survey drawing is a very common thing. Xref'ing a survey file for a background in civil drawings is even more common than that. Ater there Autodesk folks who could chime in here. Seems like a simple problem.

Tim

[ccoles]

Unfortunately, it is not as simple a thing as we would like. The solution offered above is the only one I've found that works as well. As long as they are Civil3D labels, they will be annotative. To lock it in, they must be exported out of Civil3D and into plain AutoCAD elements. Maybe something we should put on the wish list?

[tmcgivern]

Yes, wishlist indeed. Now, the solution suggested to "dumb down" the drawing. What is the best way to do this? I tried Exporting to 2013 and that seemed to work pretty well except for many of the labels associated with points rotated. Not a huge deal, but is there a better way?

Thanks,

Tim

[KirkNoonan]

We freeze the XREF labels and add different ones in the engineering drawing. Most C3D objects can be labelled through the XREF.

[tmcgivern]

Thanks Kirk - Thank you for the suggestion. There are usually hundreds of points. We will not be re-labeling them in the civil drawings. Not only is that laborious, but we do not use the same styles as survey.

[IanMcClain]

Maybe I'm not understanding the OP correctly, but this has not how C3D works.

XREFed C3D objects (points, point labels) stay at the scale of the drawing they reside in.

XREFed Annotative objects change scales with the scale/viewport of the working drawing, so long as they have the annotation scales applied to them to them in the source drawing.

So if text needs change in XREFs, use annotative objects and apply the needed scales. C3D objects are already locked in.

[tmcgivern]

It would be great if that were true Ian. A point, with a label associated to it (regardless if it officially a "annotation" or "Civil3d" object) is the most common object in a suvey file. This label (again, I don't really care what it is officially called) is what changes size according to the viewport scale. So, to recap: A survey file with labled points is Xrefd to a civil drawing with viewports of differeng scales than the survey. The labels on the points change size according to the VP scale. I have confirmed there is only one annotation scale in the survey file. The objects themselves are points (mostly), therefore the most of the problem lies in the labels of these points. If you say these are C3D objects and should be "locked in" then perhaps it is a setting you can share?

Tim

[IanMcClain]

Well I'll be damned.

Absolute or fixed scale size options for point markers will keep them the same size regardless of drawing scale. The description key may be used to apply proper scaling to the individual points.

I don't know what can be about the point lablel text.

[KirkNoonan]

If you're dealing with points, then you might want to look at using the survey database and just inserting the points into your design plans and freezing them in the XREF. The points in the database will still update when the survey changes, but the styles can be set the way you want them in the design plan.

[Cadguru42]

---

@IanMcClain wrote:

Maybe I'm not understanding the OP correctly, but this has not how C3D works.

XREFed C3D objects (points, point labels) stay at the scale of the drawing they reside in.

XREFed Annotative objects change scales with the scale/viewport of the working drawing, so long as they have the annotation scales applied to them to them in the source drawing.

So if text needs change in XREFs, use annotative objects and apply the needed scales. C3D objects are already locked in.

---

This is what I've found to be how C3D works. In fact, I ran into it this morning. I have a survey drawing that contains C3D point objects and labels. That drawing is at 10' scale for easy working. My proposed layout drawing is at 50' scale and we XREF the survey drawing into the proposed layout. The point objects and labels that are in the XREF are still at 10' scale even though the proposed layout is set for 50' scale. This is all in the model space, btw. If the OP's XREF'd labels are changing scale, then they aren't C3D point labels but some kind of basic AutoCAD annotative label. It does make a difference whether the objects are C3D objects or regular AutoCAD objects. 

[Jeff_M]

---

@engrtech wrote:

The point objects and labels that are in the XREF are still at 10' scale even though the proposed layout is set for 50' scale. This is all in the model space, btw. 

---

Create a 50 scale viewport in Paperspace. Set it to display a portion of the Xref, regen inside the VP. The points should scale to the VP scale.  Xref'ed objects, when viewed in modelspace maintain the scale the xref is set at, however, they adjust to the PS VP scale when viwed at from PS.

[JustinSider]

I spend more time on these forums trying to figure out workarounds for C3D than I do on the actual work! 

All I do now is save another copy of the drawing and bind the xref into regular AutoCAD where the annotative scales make sense.  You can even turn off the annotative scale, even mask the text just by the properties!! Not having to go through a million tabs and forms.  C3D is way over designed, they need to simplify more.  To me AutoCAD keeps getting worse with each version. 

[ccoles]

We've stopped using annotative text except for the smart labeling features of Civil 3D. Usually, our plan scales and sheet layouts are determined before actual design work begins, based on conceptual work. Then, we just use those pre-determined scales to set our text size. We had way too much problems using annotative text in the manner Autodesk has the program use them, and it just got way too cumbersome to try and keep. The Civil 3D labels actually seem to work just fine, however.