powercivil

[Anonymous]

Can someone give me some bullet points on why I would not go with powercivil
as opposed to Civil3D (the current plan). We have someone throwing a wrench
in the works here so I'm trying to get some quick info.
thanks

[Anonymous]

I don't know powercivil but if it works inside AutoCAD nothing says that it
will survive the next change to AutoCAD objects. Going 3rd party can have
some advantages. But I remember when we would wait months for Softdesk to
release a new version compatible with the latest AutoCAD release.

Allen

"skier06" wrote in message
news:5635332@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can someone give me some bullet points on why I would not go with powercivil
as opposed to Civil3D (the current plan). We have someone throwing a wrench
in the works here so I'm trying to get some quick info.
thanks

[Anonymous]

As far as I can tell it is its own environment.

"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5635412@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't know powercivil but if it works inside AutoCAD nothing says that it
will survive the next change to AutoCAD objects. Going 3rd party can have
some advantages. But I remember when we would wait months for Softdesk to
release a new version compatible with the latest AutoCAD release.

Allen

"skier06" wrote in message
news:5635332@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can someone give me some bullet points on why I would not go with powercivil
as opposed to Civil3D (the current plan). We have someone throwing a wrench
in the works here so I'm trying to get some quick info.
thanks

[Anonymous]

I know nothing about it, but for my quick take: Evaluate it, if it does
everything you want it to do then go for it. If it does 1/2 of what you do,
then you have to do some deeper evaluation.

Rick
"skier06" wrote in message
news:5635332@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can someone give me some bullet points on why I would not go with powercivil
as opposed to Civil3D (the current plan). We have someone throwing a wrench
in the works here so I'm trying to get some quick info.
thanks

[Anonymous]

PowerCivil is a complete platform change. While that's not unheard of, the complexity of that change is NOT to be underestimated.

Both packages have things they do well as well as areas I find them lacking. For what it's worth, I find the road map presented on the 'desk side to be clearer than that offered by Bentlet. There were simply too many variations on the theme for my taste.

Addtionally, I found the interface for PC to be completely unfriendly. C3D is a mess from a UI standpoint, but PC is still feels like it's Unix ancestors. I also find it very survey/cogo oriented, a plus for some, a minus for those of us who are used to working in a LDT/C3D environment.

At the end of the day, you have to do what works for you and your firm. If one person is throwing the wrench, listen to why they want to go to PC, and research it. Don't let their misinformation or rumors about C3D muddy the water and vice versa.

[Anonymous]

It's Bentley's entry into the dynamic model and land projects arena. Message was edited by: Discussion Admin

[Anonymous]

OK. Native DWG support. It may read and write DWG but do you get that Not a
Trusted DWG Format message? You'd have to test it out with any people who
will be working in Autodesk products as well and any clients or contractors
you share files with. It would be a shame to produce work in PC only to have
your client tell you he can't work with it. But after the test phase maybe
all will be good.

You would be abandoning all your investment in Autocad products and the
training you've received in them. There will be a learning curve until your
people will be productive in the new software. How long the takes depends on
the software, any training you will get in it (might cost but would probably
be vital) and how flexible you're people are.

I took a look at their movie tour. I didn't see a command line. It might be
there but if it isn't that would squelch it for me. Also if you have people
who do a lot from the keyboard. They will have the most problem switching.
You also have to consider how well existing projects will come in to the new
software. If you have to keep running LDT/C3D for a couple of years to
finish current projects it will cause a lot of hardship. Also consider
legacy data. All the projects you've done in the past. Do you need the
ability to work with them. Drawings and points are easy. But what about
alignments. profiles, cross-sections?

I'm not saying you should not consider it. I don't know enough about it. But
it would have to bee a really sweet program to offset the potential
problems. It lists at $5,000 and sells at $4,000 on the web. If you have
existing Autocad of LDT you are upgrading. PC will end up costing you more.

I'll end where I began. Drawing compatibility. I would not go in that
direction until you are very, really, completely sure that compatible means
compatible in ALL cases. Their web site says they are compatible down to
AutoCAD R11. I have drawing still in R9 so I would have to see what that
means.

Don't be afraid to look at new products. Just be very sure of what you are
getting before you make any decisions.

Allen

wrote in message news:5635419@discussion.autodesk.com...
http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/Bentley%20PowerCivil/Main.htm?market=Civil

It's Bentley's entry into the dynamic model and land projects arena.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate your comments James. To answer some of the questions posted by others..

Yes PowerCivil is a stand alone with a Microstation based platform.
As for it being a "new " entry in 3Dobject modeling, the program uses "site modeler " for dynamic object design. Site Modeler technology is over 8 yrs old so chances are the grading will do more than C3D without the bugs.

Concerning the command line, a "key in dialog can be opened and AutoCad Key-ins or hot keys (pgp) can be used.

some things you will miss however will be the "audit" and Recover command as Dgn is remarkably stable.

The Dwg will cause the message "trusted Dwg" on next opening in AutoCad. However if saved to a pre 2002 version this will not appear. Besides Bentley writes one of the best Dwgs out there apart from AutoCad, and that is argueable.

Dynamic lables in C3D are cool and currently the lableing in PC is placed using preferences and needs to be "updated" However this functionality seems more suited to cooridor design. PowerCivil is best suited for site design and this is where it excells.

The interface in C3D is at first glance more intuitive. This is due in part to the wealth of tools in PC.

For the learning curve if your an AutoCad user you will be looking at learning C3D so it is primarily the platform that will add to learning. So the question may be "how long did it take you to pick up AutoCad" weight the benifits PC offers against that and decide.

[Anonymous]

Sorry forgot my signature

Michael Barkasi
Bentley Systems
Civil/ Geospatial Specialist

[Anonymous]

They used to teach Microstation at my local college, but they quit
because no one around here uses it except for the DOTs and a lack of
interest on the student end. So if you decide to go with PowerCivil,
just remember that the students coming out of college are most likely
going to know Autocad and not Microstation.

Also, we get a Microstation users newsletter and the front covers of 10
out of 12 were about fixing file corruption with DGNs. Autocad uses
double-point precision while Microstation, at least a while ago,
doesn't. This leads to errors in calculations over long distances, like
those used by the civil engineering field.

EB

skier06 wrote:
> Can someone give me some bullet points on why I would not go with powercivil
> as opposed to Civil3D (the current plan). We have someone throwing a wrench
> in the works here so I'm trying to get some quick info.
> thanks

[Anonymous]

While it is true AutoCad is widely distributed It is an insult to assume a designer or engineer cannot quickly pick up the functions of a new CAD engine. The training one recieves in college on CAD may ammount to a couple weeks in a production setting.

Your magazines must be somewhat dated as Microstation has been using the same double precission since V8. (over 6 yrs)

Additionally prior versions V-7 had similar issues to todays AutoCad.. However Bentley only has 2 versions V7 and V8 so you need not worry about a new release not being compatable with an old one. Also there is NO retirement. If you decide to upgrade it is your choice.


Michael Barkasi
Bentley Systems

[Anonymous]

And to be perfectly clear..
The current V8 Dgn does not corrupt. If you find one that has email me.

Mike

[Anonymous]

When did this newsgroup become a plug for Bentley products?

In the end, All of this is client driven..
If they want DWG.. use Autocad
If they want DGN.. use Microstation
Use the best civil package that runs on that platform and meets your needs.
It really is that simple.

Brad Hoots, PE

Michael Barkasi wrote:
> And to be perfectly clear..
> The current V8 Dgn does not corrupt. If you find one that has email me.
>
> Mike

[Anonymous]

I am curious if anyone out there has learned both programs (C3D and PowerCivil) and could provide input from a user's perspective. From their perspective, is one easier to learn than the other. Once learned, Is one more efficient than the other?

[Anonymous]

Talking about credibility! How many misspelled words can your boss find?

Bill

wrote in message news:5637030@discussion.autodesk.com...
While it is true AutoCad is widely distributed It is an insult to assume a
designer or engineer cannot quickly pick up the functions of a new CAD
engine. The training one recieves in college on CAD may ammount to a couple
weeks in a production setting.

Your magazines must be somewhat dated as Microstation has been using the
same double precission since V8. (over 6 yrs)

Additionally prior versions V-7 had similar issues to todays AutoCad..
However Bentley only has 2 versions V7 and V8 so you need not worry about a
new release not being compatable with an old one. Also there is NO
retirement. If you decide to upgrade it is your choice.


Michael Barkasi
Bentley Systems

[Anonymous]

Ouch ... getting personal 🙂

[Anonymous]

clip:

"C3D is a mess from a UI standpoint"

[Anonymous]

If Microstation can write a perfectly compatible ACAD file, why not use it
if it is more efficient? It would put you at the mercy of ADESK though if
they wanted to play dirty.

"Brad Hoots" wrote in message
news:5637351@discussion.autodesk.com...
When did this newsgroup become a plug for Bentley products?

In the end, All of this is client driven..
If they want DWG.. use Autocad
If they want DGN.. use Microstation
Use the best civil package that runs on that platform and meets your needs.
It really is that simple.

Brad Hoots, PE

Michael Barkasi wrote:
> And to be perfectly clear..
> The current V8 Dgn does not corrupt. If you find one that has email me.
>
> Mike

[Anonymous]

Oh Autodesk would NEVER do that! Neither would MicoSoft! But since Linux
relies heavily on OpenGL it is strange that MS has dropped support of it in
Vista ; )

Autodesk certainly is not the only company that makes good Civil software.
From the little I've learned from this thread it looks like Power Civil may
be a good competitor for C3D. But the difference between 8 upgrades of C3D
on subscription and the purchase of 8 new PC seats is so huge. PC would have
to be some super program for us to even consider it. That doesn't even count
the learning curve for power PC.

Allen

"neilw" wrote in message
news:5637647@discussion.autodesk.com...
If Microstation can write a perfectly compatible ACAD file, why not use it
if it is more efficient? It would put you at the mercy of ADESK though if
they wanted to play dirty.

"Brad Hoots" wrote in message
news:5637351@discussion.autodesk.com...
When did this newsgroup become a plug for Bentley products?

In the end, All of this is client driven..
If they want DWG.. use Autocad
If they want DGN.. use Microstation
Use the best civil package that runs on that platform and meets your needs.
It really is that simple.

Brad Hoots, PE

Michael Barkasi wrote:
> And to be perfectly clear..
> The current V8 Dgn does not corrupt. If you find one that has email me.
>
> Mike

[Anonymous]

Mike I have a question for you? Since MS is still V8 why is Bentley still insisting on it's users pay a yearly fee to use their software! Where is the money going? If AD did this and had not come out with yearly upgrades since 2002! Holly cow! There would have been an all out Exodus! revolt! etc.....

So the question is why or how has Bentley been able to keep your customers if you have not had a new release of your base software since 2002 or was the 2001 when V8 came out? The answer is because the DOT's force the consultants to use your software in order to get DOT work! Period! I guess the old saying "misery loves company!" or one that I love! "Consulting firms are in the business of making money, while the DOT's are in the business of staying busy!" really holds true here!

You're software is very powerful in the hands of the experts, but the learning curve is way over most users! The time it takes to learn you software is unbelievable! Period! The money that a firm must waste in getting their guys up to speed with MS and any of the verticals is ridiculous! The only reason they are still around is because of the DOTs and their forcing the Consultants to use your software!

The money being wasted on training for MS is unbelievable! The local DOT requires their users to take like a month and half of training to learn what we teach in about a week! Maybe 6 days!

All you need to do is run an ad for a draftsman with MS experience (let along Geopak or Inroads) and see how many come knocking on your door! Few if any! But run an add for AutoCAD! And that is a whole other story!

Here in the state of MN there is maybe one college that teaches anything MS maybe one! But every single one of them teaches some form of AutoCAD and many also teach ADT, LDT, C3D and Revit! And Autodesk has just announced that they are giving the software away to both middle schools and high schools! (That's got a hurt) Meaning less cost to future employers to train!

So the bottom line! Stay as far away from MS as you can get!

"Run Forest, Run!"

I foresee the tide is changing and doors are opening up! Can anyone say WIDOT!

Bill Neuhauser P.E.

p.s.
I've had consultants actually volunteer to help pay for a state lobbyist to get the DOT to allow consultants to use other software! I have yet to talk to a consultant that uses both softwares and likes it! Everyone I've talked to would prefer to use AD products, but it is out of there hands and they have no choice!

Have a look at my blog for a poll on this very same question!
www.c3dtrixbybillneu.com