Community
Civil 3D Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Civil 3D Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular AutoCAD Civil 3D topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

ditch profile & alignment assembly question

21 REPLIES 21
SOLVED
Reply
Message 1 of 22
nostupidquestions
2868 Views, 21 Replies

ditch profile & alignment assembly question

i've got a ditch that has to be a minimum distance from the travel lane. it also has to have foreslope of 4:1 max. the ditch can move away from the travel lane at 4:1 but it can't get closer than minimum distance. i've got a ditch profile that varies quite a bit causing my ditch to be closer to the travel lane than the minimum required. what type of subassembly would you use to a) make the ditch follow the ditch profile and b) lessen the foreslope when the ditch gets shallow enough to cause it to get to close to the travel lane? is this a case for a conditional subassembly? thanks.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
21 REPLIES 21
Message 2 of 22

You could easily make this using Subassembly Composer. 

 

Input Parameters:

Side: Right
Foreslope (Slope)

MinForeslopeWidth (Double)

 

Target Parameters:

DitchProfile (Elevation)

 

Start

P1 (at Origin)

AP1&AL1 (Slope and Delta Y, from P1, Slope = -math.abs(Foreslope), Elevation Target = DitchProfile)

Decision (AL1.xlength>=MinForeslopeWidth)

True side of decision: P2 (at AP1) and L1 (P1 to P2)

False side of decision: P2&L1 (Delta X and Delta Y, from P1, Delta X = MinForeslopeWidth, Delta Y = AP1.y)

 

Then either define the rest of the ditch with stock subassembly links in Civil 3D or finish defining the ditch using Subassembly Composer. 

 

 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 3 of 22

that must be in 2013. i'm on 2012.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 4 of 22
dgordon
in reply to: nostupidquestions

sub assembly composer was first available for 2012 C3D as a downloadable from the subscription center.

it's not part of the basic C3D package even in 2013 i don't think.

 

 

Dan

Civil 3D 2013
Win 7 Pro x64
Intel Xeon 2.0GHz
12Gb Ram
ATI Firepro 4800
Dell T5500
www.preinnewhof.com
Message 5 of 22
KMercier_C3D
in reply to: dgordon

Yes, sorry, it is with subscription for 2012, and downloadable with 2013 (you have to select from a checkbox during the installation, it does not download by default). 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 6 of 22

This is great! what if i already have and alignment for my ditch? i want the subassembly to follow the profile until it becomes to close to the travel lane, then i want it to follow the alignment.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 7 of 22

You can define a Target Offset parameter and have your point defined based on the Target Elevation and Target Offset (as defined by the ditch alignment/profile)



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 8 of 22
dgordon
in reply to: KMercier_C3D

Very impressive Kati,

 

how did you get so good with sub assembly composer?   Did you have some tough projects that required a custom assembly?

 

I've been looking into SAC on my own time, but it's very slow going.   I plan to look up your two classes and see if i can read up on your white papers.

 

Thanks, for the elegant solution to this problem.

 

Dan

Civil 3D 2013
Win 7 Pro x64
Intel Xeon 2.0GHz
12Gb Ram
ATI Firepro 4800
Dell T5500
www.preinnewhof.com
Message 9 of 22
KMercier_C3D
in reply to: dgordon

Thank you for the compliment Dan. I just like fiddling with "new toys" so I started playing with Subassembly Composer back when it was in beta testing.

 

Other than the two AU lectures (1st one is about starting from scratch and 2nd one is about starting from an existing PKT file) there is also a chapter in the Mastering Civil 3D 2013 book that is all about Subassembly Composer. And of course there are a few of us here on the discussion group that will chime in with answers as you try to figure a specific subassembly out. 

 

 Good luck with figuring it out! 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 10 of 22

it will be a huge time saver if i can learn it. something to do over the holidays.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 11 of 22

is this software stand alone or does it require acad on the computer? i might load it on my laptop at home but i don't have acad on it.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 12 of 22

I think that the 2012 version downloadable for subscription members does not need Civil 3D on the same machine in order for it to run. (But of course I may be mistaken.) You could always try.  

 

The 2013 version is part of the Civil 3D 2013 download even though it runs as a stand alone program.



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 13 of 22

no such luck. gotta have acad on the machine. bummer.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 14 of 22

i keep getting an error  at the AP1&AL1 that's 'slope and delta y values must be the same sign'. what does that mean?

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 15 of 22

For a point created by Slope and Delta Y, you must have a positive slope with a positive delta Y and a negative slope with a negative delta Y. 

 

I forced the slope to be negative in the above example by using -math.abs(Foreslope), you will also want the DeltaY value to be negative and the Elevation Target to be at a lower elevation. 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 16 of 22

sorry to keep hounding you but i really don't have a good grasp on how all this works.

 

so the delta y is set to 0 so it can't be negative can it?

 

the subassembly seems to sort of work eventhough there is an error. is that typical?

 

i put the subassembly in the corridor and it works but even though i have the minforeslopewidth set to 9', it comes in as 10' wide.

 

thanks for your help

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 17 of 22

I would set the Delta Y to a default value that you would want used in case there is no target set, so a negative number such as -2. 

 

I don't know why it is appearing as 10' when you are setting it as 9'. If you post the subassembly here, it would be easier to provide you a specific answer. You will need to zip the pkt file before posting it here. 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

Message 18 of 22

thanks.

again, the plan was for the subassembly to follow the ditch profile at a 4:1 slope. if the ditch moved to close to the road then the slope would change but it would still follow the profile.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 19 of 22
fcernst
in reply to: nostupidquestions

 

It seems to work here NoStupid.

 

Holds a minimum 9' width (slope gets flatter) as the Profile target gets shallower, and then let's the desired Foreslope happen if the Profile target is deep enough to allow the Foreslope width to go beyond the 9' MinWidth.

 

ggCapture.JPG

 

ggCapture2.JPG

 

ggCapture3.JPG



Fred Ernst, PE
C3D 2024
Ernst Engineering
www.ernstengineering.com
Message 20 of 22
nostupidquestions
in reply to: fcernst

it works for me today mostly. i think the old subassembly wasn't getting deleted from my palette when i made a change to it. my problem now is that when i attach the subassembly to the assembly, all i get is the node, not a line. when i attach my ditch bottom to it, it's attaching at the upper end at the shoulder not at the bottom of the slope. what am i missing to get the line to show in the assembly?

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Rail Community


Autodesk Design & Make Report