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direct point inverse - rant

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Message 1 of 41
jtroutt
1929 Views, 40 Replies

direct point inverse - rant

For as much as everyone pays for civil 3d, it would be really nice if the surveying profession could just inverse between 2 points (and before anyone has any snide remarks, our company is ENGINEERING & SURVEYING).  I guess I just find it surprising that with all the great features of Civil, this one, seemingly easy task, is such a hassle.  I have been employed with this company for a while now and after my constant bragging about how great Civil 3D is, we finally made the switch from Carlson.  First thing the boss asked was how he can inverse between points.  After using the INV command (from LDD) and having it return an undesired effect, I tried looking in other places.  Under the inquiry tool, there is a place for inverse between points, but it is really cumbersome, considering you have to enter the point number in box 1, scroll down to box 2, enter the number, then scroll to the very bottom of the dialogue box to see the bearing and distance.  Or if you use the “DI” command, you have to input ‘_.pn for it to recognize the point numbers, but as soon as you do it once and the display is completed, you have to re-enter the same ‘_.pn.  And the third way I have found is to create a survey network, go to the job, right click, select “survey command window”, select “point information” Inverse Points, then input…..  Please tell me there is an easier way!!   I have looked on the discussion group pages and have even posted, but I haven’t received any different responses from what I have already tried.  I have already taken a look at the civil3drocks blog and tried yesterday to get a button to work, but being as I am somewhat unfamiliar with creating custom buttons, I only succeeded in messing up one of my other inquiry commands.  I was trying to copy, paste, then modify one of the other buttons to inverse between points and I ended up having 2 buttons that don’t function at all ..…  I will try again later.  I guess I had better get it to work because I really don’t want to go with my tail tucked and tell the boss that Civil 3D is the wrong choice for surveying programs.  And don't tell me I need to purchase "Syncpac" to run as an add-on... this stuff is expensive enough as it is. 

40 REPLIES 40
Message 2 of 41
wfberry
in reply to: jtroutt

I guess you have already made up your mind about this.  I do not see any scrolling to use the Inquiry Tool.  If you do, perhaps you need a larger monitor or two.  One option is just use the mouse to pick the points.

 

Bill

 

Message 3 of 41
jtroutt
in reply to: wfberry

Apologies.  Grouchy today.  What I meant was, by using the inquiry tool, the box requires that you input the first point number.  Following the input, it displays coordinates for the point, (coordinate, NE) with boxes for state plane coords if they are being used.  This first step takes up a total of 12 spaces.  Next input point 2.  For me, having 2~19" monitors, the dialogue box takes up about half of my screen.  (Point 2 input box is at the bottom.  Scroll down.) I realize I could expand the box, but then it completely covers up the command prompt and all of the menus.  Do you know of a way to reduce the display to only show input 1, input 2, output?  What do you normally do if you have multiple inverses to be made, just go back to box 1 and replace that point number with the next one?  Is there a way to input on the command prompt instead of having to click in the box, (for me pick up the mouse hand & use 10), back to the mouse, click in box 2, back to 10 key... I just find it somewhat inconvenient if more than one calc has to be made. 

 

As for the picking of the points with the mouse, that is usually the way I do things, but the boss is a different story.  Right now, I am the only one trained in Civil 3D and I am getting flack from the entire office on why this stuff doesn't work in a more user friendly manner.  "if I can draw a line from point to point, why can't it just tell me the bearing & distance?" Now, here comes "the deer in the headlights" look, sigh,  I don't know... 

Message 4 of 41
JeffPaulsen
in reply to: jtroutt

Have you tried the CGLIST command along with the 'PN transparent command? I don't like the fact that you have to type P for point after every listing but besides that it's not too bad. You can find the command on the Inquiry panel of the Analyze tab. It is called Line and Arc Information.

Jeff Paulsen
Civil 3D 2020.4 | Win 10 Pro N 64-bit
Xeon W-2223 @ 3.60GHz, 32GB Ram | NVidia Quadro P2200
Message 5 of 41
TerryDotson
in reply to: jtroutt

Add this VLX to your startup suite (Appload command), it defines two commands that lets you inverse by point number or point name.  Verify the results for a couple of runs, this is fresh off the farm.

 

http://www.dotsoft.com/public/aeccinv.zip

Message 6 of 41
sboon
in reply to: TerryDotson

I downloaded the vlx file and tried it with one of the Civil Tutorial drawings.  Both commands allow me to enter two points but then the program crashes and returns the error below.

 

; error: Automation Error. The parameter is incorrect.

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 7 of 41
AllenJessup
in reply to: sboon

I get the same error.

 

Allen

Civil 3D 2011, Version 2, Raster Design 2011
Windows 7 Pro, 64 bit

Dell Precision T7400, Xenon X5460, 3.2 GHz, 4 GB Ram
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4600, 768MB



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 8 of 41
TerryDotson
in reply to: sboon

Okay, my file also had point names.  Download again for a revised VLX and try it again.  Right now it reports start/end coordinates, bearing and distance.  Let me know what other values are needed and we'll consider adding them.

Message 9 of 41
JeffPaulsen
in reply to: TerryDotson

After a quick test it appears to work just fine. I tested it in Civil 3D 2012 with point numbers and point names. Thanks Terry.

Jeff Paulsen
Civil 3D 2020.4 | Win 10 Pro N 64-bit
Xeon W-2223 @ 3.60GHz, 32GB Ram | NVidia Quadro P2200
Message 10 of 41
jtroutt
in reply to: TerryDotson

You're my hero.  Thank you.

 

And thanks to all who have been monitoring and responding.

 

J

Message 11 of 41
sboon
in reply to: TerryDotson

Both 2D and 3D distances would be useful.  Also vertical difference, and slope or grade between points.

 

I would prefer to see the inverse reported in Azimuths, instead of by quadrant bearings.

 

Thanks Terry.

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 12 of 41
TerryDotson
in reply to: sboon

Okay, all that has been added, download the ZIP again and update your VLX.

 

IMPORTANT: This routine has not undergone thorough testing and could report incorrect results.  It is simply something we put together quickly for freeware to address the requested problem, it is not based on our time tested MapWorks code.  As such you should scrutinize it's results !!!

Message 13 of 41
TerryDotson
in reply to: sboon

Toshiba Qosmio X505-Q890

 

By the way, I have that same notebook as a test machine.  Very nice but the glossy surface is a fingerprint magnet that drives me insane.

Message 14 of 41
Sinc
in reply to: sboon


@sboon wrote:

Both 2D and 3D distances would be useful.  Also vertical difference, and slope or grade between points.

 

I would prefer to see the inverse reported in Azimuths, instead of by quadrant bearings.



Spoken like a Sincpac-C3D user...

 

I *think* the PTINV command will display azimuths, if that's how the drawing settings are set, but I need to go back and verify.  If not, they'll do that in the next release.  It already does both 2D and 3D distances, along with slope and grade, as well as incorporating the ability to include "running totals".  We've also now incorporated an OSNAPZ toggle in the Status Bar, which Autodesk inexplicably removed after the 2008 (or maybe 2007) release.

 

Jeff, Christopher, and I all actually USE Civil 3D in real work, so we understand how important these things can be.  The big question is "What's going on at Autodesk?"  Why do they keep doing things that make life so difficult for C3D users?

Sinc
Message 15 of 41
kettledrum
in reply to: TerryDotson

This is a great tool and a godsend.  This is much easier than the solutions available in vanilla C3D.  Thanks!

Message 16 of 41
jmayo-EE
in reply to: TerryDotson

Thanks Terry!

John Mayo, PE, CFM, CME
Message 17 of 41
jtroutt
in reply to: TerryDotson

Thanks Terry.  I agree w/Kettledrum.  This program is great and works much better.  Thanks to all for listening.

 

Message 18 of 41
dnicholson
in reply to: sboon

It is completely ridiculous that you would have to acquire a freeware routine for such a simple cogo task that Civil 3D should do anyways. Boo on Autodesk. I just purchased C3D through my company and after a few months of the honeymoon with it my production is WAY WICKED down. All the vendors do a great job of pumping it up because they have to. It stinks. I have a long list of all the "it used to do that" 

Windows 7 Professional SP1
intel CORE i5 vPro i5-3320M 2.60 GHz, 4.00 GB RAM
Civil 3D 2013
Message 19 of 41
troma
in reply to: dnicholson

What program were you using previously?

Mark Green

Working on Civil 3D in Canada

Message 20 of 41
dnicholson
in reply to: troma

LDC2009. Now C3D 2013. I have been using this product since its inception. DCA, Softdesk, LDT, Civil 3D. Autodesk weaves in and out of profiling this software secifically for site development. Autodesk should note that the majority of it's users are not in the subdivision business. I think they are trying too hard to compete with microstation instead of giving its customers what they need and want.

Windows 7 Professional SP1
intel CORE i5 vPro i5-3320M 2.60 GHz, 4.00 GB RAM
Civil 3D 2013

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