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bryancollins3174
Posts: 100
Registered: ‎10-26-2009
Message 1 of 7 (836 Views)
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Why would my TIN lines connect to Top of Curb instead of only EOP

836 Views, 6 Replies
01-17-2011 12:03 PM

I've been working on grading a surface of a parking lot and building pad and been running into all sorts of problems.  When I think I have all my feature lines figued out I realize my contours are spiked all over the parking lot.  Investigated the issue and found that my Centerline of Drive, HP, and LP TIN lines are connecting to the EOP against curbs and sidewalks like they are supposed to, but around curbs they are connecting to both EOP and the Top of Curb(FC & BC). 

 

A couple rounded areas came out good, but the majority of the areas with rounded curbing came out messed up.  I've attached a screen cap to better illustrate my problem. 

 

I've been going through and manually deleting the TIN lines connecting to the ToC while in 3D view.  Is there a way around this problem or having to manually take weeks deleting lines, adding in more temp feature lines, etc. 

 

One problem I've run across when deleting TIN lines is when I delete a few TINs connecting to the ToC those lines go away along with the TINs connecting to the EOP.  Most of the time I can't go back and ADD TIN lines back to the EOP. I miss the days of LDT where I could force additon or deletion of TIN lines (Civil 3D has a mind all its own) as I wanted.

 

Any and all help will be appreciated.  This project was supposed to have been finished last Tuesday; been grading and editing triangles and such ever since.  At my current speed I will never finish this grading.

Bryan Collins
Cadd Technician
Windows 7 Prof w/ SP1, 64bit, Xeon 3Ghz, 16GB
Civil 3D 2013
Distinguished Mentor
andrewpuller3811
Posts: 762
Registered: ‎07-30-2008
Message 2 of 7 (792 Views)

Re: Why would my TIN lines connect to Top of Curb instead of only EOP

01-17-2011 05:31 PM in reply to: bryancollins3174

In terms of tin lines not taking when you want to draw them...

 

From personal experience, a line has to have no triangles on both sides of ot to be drawn. I.E. you cannot fill a triangle in if it is missing and you have tin lines on all three sides.

 

If the first go at drawing a tin line in manually between 2 surface points doesn't work, try immediately drawing it again, (without exiting the add surface line command), picking the same points in the same order. I find the second time it usually works.

 

 

If this fixed your issue, click on "Accept as Solution"

Andrew Puller
Maitland, NSW, Australia
Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit
Intel core i7 2600 @ 3.40 GHz with 16GB Ram
Civil 3d 2013 64bit
Distinguished Mentor
andrewpuller3811
Posts: 762
Registered: ‎07-30-2008
Message 3 of 7 (790 Views)

Re: Why would my TIN lines connect to Top of Curb instead of only EOP

01-17-2011 05:44 PM in reply to: bryancollins3174

Just had a look at the picture.

 

Is the top of kerb directly over the invert?

 

Tin surfaces approximate curves by drawing a line accross the chord of an arc. For larger arc, the program breaks the arc down into multiple chords based on the midordinate distance to produce an approximate curve from many straight lines. In the picture the points where the triangles are drawn from on the top of kerb look offset from the points on the invert. If the two are too close horizontally (compared to the chord to arc distance of the tin line), then the points on the top of kerb would stick out over the middle of the tin lines on the invert. This will cause civil 3d to going the EOP lines to the top of kerbs at these points because the are horizontally closer than the inverts.

 

To fix this define a smaller mid ordinate distance when creating breaklines or a larger offset from the invert to the top of kerb.

 

This is probably an simpler and easier to understand explanation

 

http://tomsthird.blogspot.com/2009/07/civil-3d-feature-line-offset-and-mid.html

If this fixed your issue, click on "Accept as Solution"

Andrew Puller
Maitland, NSW, Australia
Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit
Intel core i7 2600 @ 3.40 GHz with 16GB Ram
Civil 3d 2013 64bit
Valued Contributor
bryancollins3174
Posts: 100
Registered: ‎10-26-2009
Message 4 of 7 (761 Views)

Re: Why would my TIN lines connect to Top of Curb instead of only EOP

01-18-2011 05:09 AM in reply to: andrewpuller3811

Thanks for all the input. Surprisingly I found a solution late last night after continuing playing around with the drawing.

 

When I originally did my feature line offsets I used too small of a offset distance 0.001 and for whatever reason this causes the program to shoot to the top of curb more often than say using a 0.01 offset distance (recreated same scenerio multiple times).  Some TINs still shoot to the top of curb, just not as many. 

 

For over a week now I've been swapping faces and deleting TIN lines with no solid results and tons of holes in my surface until last night I ventured into 3D view.  I have never had to work in 3D view for any drawing...even under LDT.  It really never occurred to me to try and swap vertical faces/triangles instead of horizontal faces.  And what do you know...it worked.

 

Thanks again everyone.  Now I can get back to my other grading issue.

 

Would love it when my project is out the door if I could share my drawing with someone on here and have them walk me through how they would have handled grading my site.  Any takers?

Bryan Collins
Cadd Technician
Windows 7 Prof w/ SP1, 64bit, Xeon 3Ghz, 16GB
Civil 3D 2013
*Expert Elite*
Joe-Bouza
Posts: 4,778
Registered: ‎12-15-2008
Message 5 of 7 (752 Views)

Re: Why would my TIN lines connect to Top of Curb instead of only EOP

01-18-2011 05:28 AM in reply to: bryancollins3174

post it

Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People) Civil 3D 2012 & 2013
HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win7 OS
Valued Contributor
SkipBurns
Posts: 70
Registered: ‎06-25-2008
Message 6 of 7 (749 Views)

Re: Why would my TIN lines connect to Top of Curb instead of only EOP

01-18-2011 05:43 AM in reply to: bryancollins3174

This is one reason why I like to use a grading object for my Curbs.  Besides daylight I usually do all of my other grading with feature lines, but for curbs I like to use gradings because it stays dynamic with the edge of pavement.  So when revisions are made, I only have to edit the edge of pavement and the top of curb will update.

*Expert Elite*
Joe-Bouza
Posts: 4,778
Registered: ‎12-15-2008
Message 7 of 7 (745 Views)

Re: Why would my TIN lines connect to Top of Curb instead of only EOP

01-18-2011 05:53 AM in reply to: SkipBurns

Interesting. Any issues with corruption? I know many posters here are adverse to maintaining GO in a drawing due to their volatility

Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People) Civil 3D 2012 & 2013
HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win7 OS

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