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Vertical ties at Intersection

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Message 1 of 22
usu2002
408 Views, 21 Replies

Vertical ties at Intersection

Is it possible to tie the intersection of a two different vertical alignments so that when you modify one vertical alignment, the other updates automatically at that point?
21 REPLIES 21
Message 2 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Good suggestion but I dont believe that is possible. I posted below lock vital points on a profile below (somwhat similiar). I suggested they add that to the future wish list and I would also like your suggestion added as well. That would keep the dynamic relationship between design points tied. "usu2002" wrote in message news:13382340.1101921661778.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > Is it possible to tie the intersection of a two different vertical alignments so that when you modify one vertical alignment, the other updates automatically at that point?
Message 3 of 22
usu2002
in reply to: usu2002

Ya, that is definitely worthy of the wish list. I would think that it would at least be in the works. I mean with all of the dynamic, intelligent ability Civil 3D has I would think that would be something easy to do.
Message 4 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

I was thinking about this very thing and after further review, it appears there would be several options that would be difficult to place in every profile. 1. If the beginning (Sta 0+00) is raised, do I want the entire profile to be raised? I don't thing so. 2. How far and what slopes to change, relocation of PVI, etc. This could be rather difficult for a computer to replace a little "brain" power. wfb "usu2002" wrote in message news:23130437.1101933821493.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > Ya, that is definitely worthy of the wish list. I would think that it would at least be in the works. I mean with all of the dynamic, intelligent ability Civil 3D has I would think that would be something easy to do.
Message 5 of 22
usu2002
in reply to: usu2002

Well, maybe there could be a reference point displayed in the profile showing what that intersection elevation is for intersecting alignment. I'm just thinking of some way to make it easier to update both profiles when the intersection of the two changes on one profile. I've seen many times when people change one profile and forget to change the other.
Message 6 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Hey usu2002; Interesting handle you've got. I hope for all involved that someone other than the contractor catches that blunder. You do make use of the "Checked By" box in the title block, I'm sure. :-) Only kidding! But seriously, we still need to be responsible for something when payday rolls around. Many years ago, I heard a user dreaming of the "Project" button on the keyboard. But I want to be able to recognize when the PC spits out something that may be mathematically correct, but aesthetically down the toilet. And way before it gets into the Production stage, too. Over lunch today we were discussing issues regarding bringing some novice users up into the intermediate levels, and the point was made that they might not know the difference between Cut and Fill situations. I pointed out that type of user brings with them some inherent danger. We still need people who can recognize when something is wrong with a design, and why. And then can apply their knowledge and experience (or go get help) to fix it. I think that you are still looking for user intervention with this scenario, and for good reason. There may be a characteristic down the intersecting road that creates an unusable sag or crest condition by just having the alignment dynamically follow the "controlling" profile. HTH -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "usu2002" wrote in message news:5127385.1102434374617.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > Well, maybe there could be a reference point displayed in the profile showing what that intersection elevation is for intersecting alignment. I'm just thinking of some way to make it easier to update both profiles when the intersection of the two changes on one profile. I've seen many times when people change one profile and forget to change the other.
Message 7 of 22
Scott Wolfe
in reply to: usu2002

how about dropping a pre-designed "solid" intersection that attaches to 2 alignments. seems like a slam dunk in the solid modeling world.
Message 8 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Hey Scott; I would be interested to find out how a pre-designed solid would fit the infinitely variable characteristics of each alignment. At the very least you would need around half a dozen to accommodate the variations in horizontal geometry. 1.. 3-way intersection - both roads tangent 2.. 3-way intersection - main road curved, connecting road tangent 3.. 3-way intersection - main road tangent, connecting road curved d.. 4-way intersection - all roads tangent e.. 4-way intersection - main road tangent, both connecting roads tangent f.. 4-way intersection - main road tangent, one connecting road curved, one connecting road tangent g.. 4-way intersection - all roads curved h.. 4-way intersection - main road curved, both connecting roads tangent i.. 4-way intersection - main road curved, one connecting road curved, one connecting road tangent And that wouldn't take into account the variations produced by differing radii on the curve examples. And to intentionally make a pun... A round-about would throw your suggestion into a loop. And finally, how would you handle the variations produced by the vertical data? It's really not a Flat World, you know. Nice try, though. -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "Scott Wolfe" wrote in message news:10031295.1102522668970.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum1.autodesk.com... > how about dropping a pre-designed "solid" intersection that attaches to 2 alignments. seems like a slam dunk in the solid modeling world.
Message 9 of 22
Scott Wolfe
in reply to: usu2002

Yes you would need more than one, and when I was in the solid modeling world, I used to tie my models to the sketch (alignment would be similar to the sketch) now changing the sketch would adjust the model dynamically.

I still think having a few extra models would make life easier. for now, I'm going to ignore the fine detail of the radii at the intersection.

In Texas, (much flatter than Washington) many of the companies here just provide spot shots for the new surface. so this will make life much easier.

I like traffic circles, just havn't seen one in Texas yet. I think they are more of a European thing. Even Canada has been elliminating many of the ones they have had.
Message 10 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Scott, I have one in my neighborhood. Relatively new about 2-3 yrs old. Granted it's nothing like what I've seen in Europe, but one none the less. Granted I prefer them to the monster speed bumps they've been installing these days! Mark Martinez The D.C. CADD Company - San Antonio, TX
Message 11 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

They are pretty popular around here, Loveland, CO. I just designed a subdivision with three of them. -- Brian Hailey LDT2005 C3D2005 XP Pro - SP 2 P4 2.8GHz 1.00 GB of RAM "Mark Martinez" wrote in message news:hhuer01d2bmcatri8eomebh1vqh2k8654o@4ax.com... > Scott, > > I have one in my neighborhood. Relatively new about 2-3 yrs old. Granted > it's > nothing like what I've seen in Europe, but one none the less. > > Granted I prefer them to the monster speed bumps they've been installing > these > days! > > Mark Martinez > The D.C. CADD Company - San Antonio, TX
Message 12 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Well, lest we forget - West Texas has considerable relief. 🙂 Guadalupe Peak is 8,000+ from what I remember. And as far as the circles go, when viewed from the air they resemble mushrooms, which may account for their growing (yes, pun intended) popularity up here in the Temperate Rain Forest. And Scott, I was born in Houston and raised in Pasadena, but the last time I was back in the Lone Star state was 1977. Things had changed considerable then, and I'm not sure I could handle the 90/90 days any more. -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "Scott Wolfe" wrote in message news:15302012.1102540771109.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > Yes you would need more than one, and when I was in the solid modeling world, I used to tie my models to the sketch (alignment would be similar to the sketch) now changing the sketch would adjust the model dynamically. > > I still think having a few extra models would make life easier. for now, I'm going to ignore the fine detail of the radii at the intersection. > > In Texas, (much flatter than Washington) many of the companies here just provide spot shots for the new surface. so this will make life much easier. > > I like traffic circles, just havn't seen one in Texas yet. I think they are more of a European thing. Even Canada has been elliminating many of the ones they have had.
Message 13 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Hey Brian; How was C3D to use on one of those? I hope you didn't wimp out. :-) -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "Brian Hailey" wrote in message news:41b77f03$1_3@newsprd01... > They are pretty popular around here, Loveland, CO. I just designed a > subdivision with three of them. > > -- > Brian Hailey > LDT2005 > C3D2005 > XP Pro - SP 2 > P4 2.8GHz > 1.00 GB of RAM > > > "Mark Martinez" wrote in message > news:hhuer01d2bmcatri8eomebh1vqh2k8654o@4ax.com... > > Scott, > > > > I have one in my neighborhood. Relatively new about 2-3 yrs old. Granted > > it's > > nothing like what I've seen in Europe, but one none the less. > > > > Granted I prefer them to the monster speed bumps they've been installing > > these > > days! > > > > Mark Martinez > > The D.C. CADD Company - San Antonio, TX > >
Message 14 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Hi Don, It was pre-Civil3D that I designed them. I guess "just" was a bit of stretch for "the last year or so". -- Brian Hailey LDT2005 C3D2005 XP Pro - SP 2 P4 2.8GHz 1.00 GB of RAM "Don Reichle" wrote in message news:41b79527$1_3@newsprd01... > Hey Brian; > > How was C3D to use on one of those? > > I hope you didn't wimp out. :-) > > -- > Don Reichle > "King Of Work-Arounds" > Barghausen Consulting Engineers > Kent, WA USA > LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 > On WIN2K SP4 > Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 > 512MB RAM > NVIDIA 32MB AGP > > > "Brian Hailey" wrote in message > news:41b77f03$1_3@newsprd01... >> They are pretty popular around here, Loveland, CO. I just designed a >> subdivision with three of them. >> >> -- >> Brian Hailey >> LDT2005 >> C3D2005 >> XP Pro - SP 2 >> P4 2.8GHz >> 1.00 GB of RAM >> >> >> "Mark Martinez" wrote in message >> news:hhuer01d2bmcatri8eomebh1vqh2k8654o@4ax.com... >> > Scott, >> > >> > I have one in my neighborhood. Relatively new about 2-3 yrs old. >> > Granted >> > it's >> > nothing like what I've seen in Europe, but one none the less. >> > >> > Granted I prefer them to the monster speed bumps they've been >> > installing >> > these >> > days! >> > >> > Mark Martinez >> > The D.C. CADD Company - San Antonio, TX >> >> > >
Message 15 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Hey Brian; I'm sorry I'm on a roll with the traffic circle puns now... Well the next time one comes around, please let us know how it went with C3D. I would imagine that if some enterprising planner wanted to place one in a hillside environment, things might get a little dicey matching the connecting streets into the design. And if you can clue us how you handled it in LDT (without giving away company secrets) I for one would greatly appreciate it. -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "Brian Hailey" wrote in message news:41b871bb$1_2@newsprd01... > Hi Don, > > It was pre-Civil3D that I designed them. I guess "just" was a bit of > stretch for "the last year or so". > > -- > Brian Hailey > LDT2005 > C3D2005 > XP Pro - SP 2 > P4 2.8GHz > 1.00 GB of RAM > > > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > news:41b79527$1_3@newsprd01... > > Hey Brian; > > > > How was C3D to use on one of those? > > > > I hope you didn't wimp out. :-) > > > > -- > > Don Reichle > > "King Of Work-Arounds" > > Barghausen Consulting Engineers > > Kent, WA USA > > LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 > > On WIN2K SP4 > > Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 > > 512MB RAM > > NVIDIA 32MB AGP > > > > > > "Brian Hailey" wrote in message > > news:41b77f03$1_3@newsprd01... > >> They are pretty popular around here, Loveland, CO. I just designed a > >> subdivision with three of them. > >> > >> -- > >> Brian Hailey > >> LDT2005 > >> C3D2005 > >> XP Pro - SP 2 > >> P4 2.8GHz > >> 1.00 GB of RAM > >> > >> > >> "Mark Martinez" wrote in message > >> news:hhuer01d2bmcatri8eomebh1vqh2k8654o@4ax.com... > >> > Scott, > >> > > >> > I have one in my neighborhood. Relatively new about 2-3 yrs old. > >> > Granted > >> > it's > >> > nothing like what I've seen in Europe, but one none the less. > >> > > >> > Granted I prefer them to the monster speed bumps they've been > >> > installing > >> > these > >> > days! > >> > > >> > Mark Martinez > >> > The D.C. CADD Company - San Antonio, TX > >> > >> > > > > > >
Message 16 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Hi Don, Well, each one was a bit different. Some had crosspans, some didn't. Two where 4-way, one was 3-way. Basically, I used the centerline profile, imported it into my drawing as a 3dpline, and then graded by hand from there (by hand, I mean using 3dpolys around the flowlines and pans). I didn't use any templates or anything like that. I imagine I'll do something similar with Civil3D, run the corridor up to the traffic circle and then grade the traffic circle by hand. -- Brian Hailey LDT2005 C3D2005 XP Pro - SP 2 P4 2.8GHz 1.00 GB of RAM "Don Reichle" wrote in message news:41b8887f$1_2@newsprd01... > Hey Brian; > > I'm sorry I'm on a roll with the traffic circle puns now... > > Well the next time one comes around, please let us know how it went with > C3D. > > I would imagine that if some enterprising planner wanted to place one in a > hillside environment, things might get a little dicey matching the > connecting streets into the design. > > And if you can clue us how you handled it in LDT (without giving away > company secrets) I for one would greatly appreciate it. > > -- > Don Reichle > "King Of Work-Arounds" > Barghausen Consulting Engineers > Kent, WA USA > LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 > On WIN2K SP4 > Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 > 512MB RAM > NVIDIA 32MB AGP > > > "Brian Hailey" wrote in message > news:41b871bb$1_2@newsprd01... >> Hi Don, >> >> It was pre-Civil3D that I designed them. I guess "just" was a bit of >> stretch for "the last year or so". >> >> -- >> Brian Hailey >> LDT2005 >> C3D2005 >> XP Pro - SP 2 >> P4 2.8GHz >> 1.00 GB of RAM >> >> >> "Don Reichle" wrote in message >> news:41b79527$1_3@newsprd01... >> > Hey Brian; >> > >> > How was C3D to use on one of those? >> > >> > I hope you didn't wimp out. :-) >> > >> > -- >> > Don Reichle >> > "King Of Work-Arounds" >> > Barghausen Consulting Engineers >> > Kent, WA USA >> > LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 >> > On WIN2K SP4 >> > Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 >> > 512MB RAM >> > NVIDIA 32MB AGP >> > >> > >> > "Brian Hailey" wrote in message >> > news:41b77f03$1_3@newsprd01... >> >> They are pretty popular around here, Loveland, CO. I just designed a >> >> subdivision with three of them. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Brian Hailey >> >> LDT2005 >> >> C3D2005 >> >> XP Pro - SP 2 >> >> P4 2.8GHz >> >> 1.00 GB of RAM >> >> >> >> >> >> "Mark Martinez" wrote in message >> >> news:hhuer01d2bmcatri8eomebh1vqh2k8654o@4ax.com... >> >> > Scott, >> >> > >> >> > I have one in my neighborhood. Relatively new about 2-3 yrs old. >> >> > Granted >> >> > it's >> >> > nothing like what I've seen in Europe, but one none the less. >> >> > >> >> > Granted I prefer them to the monster speed bumps they've been >> >> > installing >> >> > these >> >> > days! >> >> > >> >> > Mark Martinez >> >> > The D.C. CADD Company - San Antonio, TX >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > >
Message 17 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Any thoughts on breaking a circle of the proper radius by a hundredth, so you wouldn't have a continuous alignment? I've not had the proper circumstance to try it out yet, but for most of the circle (between corridors) you could make use of an assembly, seems to me. We would want to encourage safe, low speed, driving practice so I imagine the use of a shed section draining to the outside of the circle's alignment; not to the inside like NASCAR. :-) -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "Brian Hailey" wrote in message news:41b8913d$1_3@newsprd01... > Hi Don, > > Well, each one was a bit different. Some had crosspans, some didn't. Two > where 4-way, one was 3-way. Basically, I used the centerline profile, > imported it into my drawing as a 3dpline, and then graded by hand from there > (by hand, I mean using 3dpolys around the flowlines and pans). I didn't use > any templates or anything like that. I imagine I'll do something similar > with Civil3D, run the corridor up to the traffic circle and then grade the > traffic circle by hand. > > -- > Brian Hailey > LDT2005 > C3D2005 > XP Pro - SP 2 > P4 2.8GHz > 1.00 GB of RAM > > > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > news:41b8887f$1_2@newsprd01... > > Hey Brian; > > > > I'm sorry I'm on a roll with the traffic circle puns now... > > > > Well the next time one comes around, please let us know how it went with > > C3D. > > > > I would imagine that if some enterprising planner wanted to place one in a > > hillside environment, things might get a little dicey matching the > > connecting streets into the design. > > > > And if you can clue us how you handled it in LDT (without giving away > > company secrets) I for one would greatly appreciate it. > > > > -- > > Don Reichle > > "King Of Work-Arounds" > > Barghausen Consulting Engineers > > Kent, WA USA > > LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 > > On WIN2K SP4 > > Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 > > 512MB RAM > > NVIDIA 32MB AGP > > > > > > "Brian Hailey" wrote in message > > news:41b871bb$1_2@newsprd01... > >> Hi Don, > >> > >> It was pre-Civil3D that I designed them. I guess "just" was a bit of > >> stretch for "the last year or so". > >> > >> -- > >> Brian Hailey > >> LDT2005 > >> C3D2005 > >> XP Pro - SP 2 > >> P4 2.8GHz > >> 1.00 GB of RAM > >> > >> > >> "Don Reichle" wrote in message > >> news:41b79527$1_3@newsprd01... > >> > Hey Brian; > >> > > >> > How was C3D to use on one of those? > >> > > >> > I hope you didn't wimp out. :-) > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Don Reichle > >> > "King Of Work-Arounds" > >> > Barghausen Consulting Engineers > >> > Kent, WA USA > >> > LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 > >> > On WIN2K SP4 > >> > Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 > >> > 512MB RAM > >> > NVIDIA 32MB AGP > >> > > >> > > >> > "Brian Hailey" wrote in message > >> > news:41b77f03$1_3@newsprd01... > >> >> They are pretty popular around here, Loveland, CO. I just designed a > >> >> subdivision with three of them. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Brian Hailey > >> >> LDT2005 > >> >> C3D2005 > >> >> XP Pro - SP 2 > >> >> P4 2.8GHz > >> >> 1.00 GB of RAM > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> "Mark Martinez" wrote in message > >> >> news:hhuer01d2bmcatri8eomebh1vqh2k8654o@4ax.com... > >> >> > Scott, > >> >> > > >> >> > I have one in my neighborhood. Relatively new about 2-3 yrs old. > >> >> > Granted > >> >> > it's > >> >> > nothing like what I've seen in Europe, but one none the less. > >> >> > > >> >> > Granted I prefer them to the monster speed bumps they've been > >> >> > installing > >> >> > these > >> >> > days! > >> >> > > >> >> > Mark Martinez > >> >> > The D.C. CADD Company - San Antonio, TX > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > >
Message 18 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

Actually, the ones I designed where rather small. I didn't do an alignment around the traffic circle, just the two alignment through it and then hand graded the rest. I suppose an alignment around it with a template might work but it seems like it would be more work than necessary, especially if you have drainage pans crossing through it. I've attached screen shots of the three so you can see them. -- Brian Hailey LDT2005 C3D2005 XP Pro - SP 2 P4 2.8GHz 1.00 GB of RAM Attachment not added (too many attachments): "tc-3.PNG"
Message 19 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: usu2002

I guess I'm thinking of the Industrial Strength round-abouts like they have in New Jersey (that's Joisey to you Joe B). Looks like the outside radius in your locale is only about the size of a CDS. You're right about not using an alignment for things of that size. More trouble than it's worth. -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "Brian Hailey" wrote in message news:41b8c163_3@newsprd01... > Actually, the ones I designed where rather small. I didn't do an alignment > around the traffic circle, just the two alignment through it and then hand > graded the rest. I suppose an alignment around it with a template might > work but it seems like it would be more work than necessary, especially if > you have drainage pans crossing through it. I've attached screen shots of > the three so you can see them. > > -- > Brian Hailey > LDT2005 > C3D2005 > XP Pro - SP 2 > P4 2.8GHz > 1.00 GB of RAM > > >
Message 20 of 22
Scott Wolfe
in reply to: usu2002

Sorry Don, I've been kind of stuck to the DFW flatland area for the last little while. Although my last project was a resort project in Teluride, CO.

I do miss the Emerald City. I keep thinking of moving back to that area.

I miss the mountains and snow and evergreens, but not the rain. maybe I could live there in the summers. 🙂 or just west of the cascades. I do subdivisions on a per lot fee out of my home office. might be hard to find that kind of gig there.

Scott Wolfe, PE

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