Community
Civil 3D Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Civil 3D Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular AutoCAD Civil 3D topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Tree Point style

24 REPLIES 24
Reply
Message 1 of 25
allywhite666
9213 Views, 24 Replies

Tree Point style

Hello I am a bit of a novice so please excuse the ignorance of my question.

I am drafting for surveyors and have set up my description keys and point groups but am having problems with my trees and the symbol that I want to use for them.

I used the tree symbol that comes with AutoCAD just for a test and I don’t even know how to get that tree to scale using the field description.

I would like to use a symbol like the one below (or something similar) that has a spread and a trunk.

I'm using the description TR 6 .5 8 conifer being "TR spread trunk height species", the species is mostly not used, but can use anything that will make it easy (i.e. I can tell the surveyors to change the code).

Not sure if it is possible but would like the trunk to scale on the symbol and the spread also and the hatch in the trunk to exclude the text. Below is an example of what I'm trying to achieve.

Capture_2014-01-02_175813.png

 

Any suggestions of how I can achieve something like this will be appreciated. Please remember I am a novice and may need step by step instructions as I have always done things the old fashioned way and edited trees by hand.

Any help would be appreciated and thanks for reading.

Tags (1)
24 REPLIES 24
Message 2 of 25
rendarin
in reply to: allywhite666

You could separate them into separate Point Groups and apply differing styles. This may not be the most elegant way and I haven't really tried it yet.

For example, for trees with 0.3ø you can create a point group that only includes points with the description "TR # 0.3*" If my understanding of wildcards in C3D is correct this will include all Trees, with any span, and with any height and specie.

You can then apply a point marker style to that set that uses an appropriate tree block for the 0.3ø size.

I haven't tried this out yet though, but I think it should be correct, unless I screwed up the wildcards

 

Addendum:

http://docs.autodesk.com/CIVIL/2010/ENU/AutoCAD%20Civil%202010%20User%20Documentation/index.html?url...  <-- wildcards

Message 3 of 25
dgordon
in reply to: allywhite666

in description keys there is a column labeled scale parameter. This box needs to be checked and the parameter needs to be set to the part of the description that identifies the scale factor the block needs to be scaled by. This is a bit tricky. let me explain. Here is an example of one of our tree codes. "T 1.833 10" Parameter 0 is T Parameter 1 is 1.833 Parameter 2 is 10 so when I check the box for scale parameter I need to set it to Parameter 1 which is 1.833. This is the scale that will be applied to the size of my block. if the box for use drawing scale is set to yes this would mean to also applied to current drawing scale as a multiplying factor. If my drawing scale is 40 when I import the points the scale of the tree block will be [block] x 1.833 x 40. also there are two more columns that effect how the block is scaled. They are apply to x-y and apply to z. We set apply to x-y to yes and apply to z to no. We want the block to be larger in the x-y but want the z value of the point to stay the same. also another thing we like to do is have the full description modify the raw description into something readable. So in the column marked format We use codes to bring about the modification desired. since the tree size in this example is 10" we use the raw description to help us show a new full description as follows. $2" = takes the parameter 2 from above which is 10 and puts a quote character behind it. $3 = takes whatever follows and places it with a space after parameter 2. this could be something like ash, or oak, or pine. resulting in a full description of 10" pine this format would look like this $2" $3 Just in case the surveyor wants to be able to include additional information we code it like this... $2" $3 $4 $5 $6 $7 $8 $9 I hope this helps yourself and others who read this to get started.
Dan

Civil 3D 2013
Win 7 Pro x64
Intel Xeon 2.0GHz
12Gb Ram
ATI Firepro 4800
Dell T5500
www.preinnewhof.com
Message 4 of 25
allywhite666
in reply to: dgordon

@ (Dan)

Thank you very much for your help, I have been playing around with what you describe above previously but had no luck.

The screen shot below shows how I have it set up in description keys but when I manually insert a tree with the code T 1 .5 1 I am getting a tree with a radius of 1.765m I am just using the standard tree with civil 3D as a test. Also I am not getting any label should I have something different in the label style box?

desc key.jpg

Message 5 of 25
allywhite666
in reply to: rendarin

@ rendarin

Thank you also for your help.

I think I understand what you mean, to create point groups for every possible trunk diameter.

This would take a while I would have thought that Civil 3D would have been able to handle trees better than that.

You would think there would be a way to scale different parts of the symbol (point style) and not just the symbol (point style) as a whole.

Message 6 of 25
Pointdump
in reply to: allywhite666

Point_Group_2.PNG

 

You can do anything in a Point Group that you can do with Description Keys, except for Scale Factor. If you turn off the overrides in the Point Group, you can assign each point inside the Point Group a completely different Layer, Point Style, Label Style, Marker Rotation, Label Rotation, etc. Description Keys only automate this process.

Dave

Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada

EESignature

64GB DDR4 2400MHz ECC SoDIMM / 1TB SSD
NVIDIA Quadro P5000 16GB
Windows 10 Pro 64 / Civil 3D 2024
Message 7 of 25
IanMcClain
in reply to: allywhite666

You only get one style (block) and one label per point. So I would decided if you want the trunk or the spread (drip line?) to be represented.

 

The way we do it is to match the description key to the trunk (parameter 2 in your example) to scale a hatched circle defined with a diameter of 0.0833 (1 inch). We draw in drip lines by hand; it works better for us since drip line often blend together.

 

You could also use a two step process where you bring points with description key using the diameter to bring in a trunk symbol, explode them all, then match on a second description key that matches the spread.

Ian McClain
Message 8 of 25
allywhite666
in reply to: Pointdump

@ Pointdump
Thanks for the info Dave. 🙂
Message 9 of 25
allywhite666
in reply to: IanMcClain

@ IanMcClain
Hi Ian, thank you for your help.
It is disappointing that such a big program as Civil 3D doesn't do something as simple as this. Two styles (blocks) is something they need to add to the program. Looks like I will have to do 2 separate drawings with 2 separate deskeys and import them (twice the work than it should be) or find a program that can handle trees better. Thank you for your suggestions and sharing how you do it. 🙂
Message 10 of 25
SurveyorLee
in reply to: IanMcClain

I have done something similiar.  I created the inner trunk at 1" diameter (0.066 feet) at 1"=1'

We use either 1.5 or 1 inch of shade radius per inch of tree diameter.  The the tree is coded with a specifc code such as

T-Conn 4

my descriptor then uses the symbol conn.  I then set it to use the drawing scale and the a factor of 12.   Then create a tree label style that will take take the Full Description and the format    $1" Connifer 

You should then be able to put an expression in the lable style  for the other two items and put them in specific fields in your code.

You will need to create two keys

The first would be

T-Conn

The second would be

T-Conn *

There is a space between the Conn and the * to seperate the field.  SInce the diameter only uses the first field, the the other fields could be coded into the label style.

 

If you create the trunk as a solid file, you can turn masking on for the label style.  This should give you what you need. 

The only issues found with this so far have been when the tree without a size is entered, when there are multiple stumps for one tree, and when the crew mixes up the field and puts a lot of them in the wrong order. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

SurveyorLee

                                                    

Message 11 of 25
annw2
in reply to: allywhite666

I have been playing around with description keys and running into a lot of frustration trying to do something similar. 2014

 

I am finding the instructions in the 2000 LDD book clearer.  I had to go back there to understand the function and will be reading it beginning to end tomorrow. Sometimes I swear Autodesk most hold contests to make the instructions worse for each release.

 

I have a point code "Spruce" with a 'spruce' tree block set to absolute value of 15 as a standard size of 15' as a normal size.

 

The 'spruce' block itself is one unit.

 

I would like to have the OPTION in the point codes to vary the size if they surveyors specify a size.

 

i.e. 

 

Spruce 36 would increase the size to 36 feet (ie - spread roughly equivalent to trunk diamter)

 

If the surveyors don't specify a size, I would like the tree to default to 15'.

 

What I find is that if set the scaling parameter to 1 (It also took quite a fight to be able to change the default.  When I checked the box, it wouldn't let me edit or choose a drop down.  I had to cancel out and come back in before it would let me vary from parameter 1 to parameter 2), the blocks come in at parameter 1 X 15 ft so that Spruce 36 = 15 ft X 36 ft = 540 ft in diameter.

 

Checking the second box tryiing to use the parameter for an absolute size  still has the same result.

 

Is it possible to do this scaling or do I give up on scaling and just have all the trees 15 ft in diameter?

 

I also found it is quite a fight to be able to type in the description key at all.  Just when I think I am editing the first column, the cursor will jump somewhere else, usually the top row.

 

I finally got the labels to function correctly.

 

I'm still not sure what checking the first box for point code is supposed to do.  The help function needs to be greatly expanded for this.  I think it means if not checked use the default and allow the styles to vary if the point group style is changed.  I think checked means hold the override to default at time of import and not allow it to be changed.

 

I would also like the basic point style to change color so that as I change the layers for top and bottom of curb, the symbol layer will change to match the layer.  I will try changing symbol display to layer 0 tomorrow.

Ann Wingert, P.E.
Message 12 of 25
IanMcClain
in reply to: annw2

Hi Ann,

 

Please consider making a new thread in the future as it indicates to others that you have a question seperate from the OP. It aslo makes it easier for people with similar questions as yours to find the solution if one is posted.

 

As to your question:

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can set a default parameter value. It can only be 0 if there is no data for the parameter being referenced.

 

If the code is "SPRUCE 36" the block in the point style assigned with the DescKey will need to have an overally unit size of 1.The scale parameter in the DescKey should be checked, and the Fixed scale should be unchecked (otherwise you are scaling twice) and the apply to XY should be checked.

 

You could make a point group for all your trees and key in a parameter of 15 for the ones that are blank.

 

tree.png

 

Hope this helps.


Regards,

Ian

Ian McClain
Message 13 of 25
IanMcClain
in reply to: annw2

Hi Ann,

 

Please consider making a new thread in the future as it indicates to others that you have a question seperate from the OP. It aslo makes it easier for people with similar questions as yours to find the solution if one is posted.

 

As to your question:

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can set a default parameter value. It can only be 0 if there is no data for the parameter being referenced.

 

If the code is "SPRUCE 36" the block in the point style assigned with the DescKey will need to have an overally unit size of 1.The scale parameter in the DescKey should be checked, and the Fixed scale should be unchecked (otherwise you are scaling twice) and the apply to XY should be checked.

 

You could make a point group for all your trees and key in a parameter of 15 for the ones that are blank.

 

tree.png

 

Hope this helps.


Regards,

Ian

Ian McClain
Message 14 of 25
allywhite666
in reply to: IanMcClain

Ian I think you have a stutter, or did you just hit the post button twice? 🙂

Message 15 of 25
allywhite666
in reply to: annw2

Ann the only way I can see you solving this problem is to create 2 keys one called "spruce" and set the block you have (with 15'). Then create another key called "spruce_" (or something similar) and make the surveyors who label a size put the extra character in if labeling. You will also have to copy the block you have (ie. at 15') and scale it to 1/15th of the size ( so it is at 1') and save it as a new block. then use this block with your new key with the scaling factors turned on (If you need help with this please see the above comments on this post).


Hope this helps.

 

Message 16 of 25
annw2
in reply to: allywhite666

I was afraid of that.? I don't know if our surveyors are that organized.

Thanks for trying.

I think my browser may be posting my responses twice.
Ann Wingert, P.E.
Message 17 of 25
SurveyorLee
in reply to: annw2

Ann,

I have used two different types of description keys. One that scales the dripline by 1.5 feet per 1 inch of trunk diameter.  The other is a fixed size.  Both put the label in.

The way i did the first one is a multi step process

Create the symbol

    1.  Open a blank drawing at a scale of 1" = 1'  [I use imperial units}

    2.  Draw a circle 0.06' (1inch) in diameter.  This is the trunk of the tree. 

        The layer is up to you.  You probably want ot put i on layer 0, with line by color

         so it can be set when you choose your layer.

    3.  Use what ever line work you want to define the outer edge of the tree drip line.  But you want it to be centered about

          the center of the circle with a  radius of 1.5 feet (if you are using 1' per inch of trunk diameter, then it is 1.0) 

    4.  Create the symbol by WBlocking it out with the center of the circle as the insertion point.

Create the description key

  To make it bring in the trees correctly, we have to create two keys

   1.     Create a default key

           T-SPR      Set it to scale it by a factor of 12.33 (this should make it a 15" trunk diameter and the radius 22.5')

   2.    Create the main key

          T-SPR *    This key has a space between the R and the *.  The system is looking for "t-spr" then a space , then anything.

   3.    To the right you need to set Multiply by Parameter 1, Scale Factor of 12.00, Use Drawing Scale, and Apply to X-Y only.

  

Now, on the

 T-SPR * key, go to the Description Column.  Set it for $1" SPRUCE $2 $3 $4 $5 $6 $7 $8 $9

 [The $2-9 will only pull other things in if they exist.  If it is a tree it should not have anything in it

The $1 will get the first field and place it there, so that if you had T-SPR 18   The description will be 18" SPRUCE

The tree will be scaled up to an 18" tree.  That means the trunk diameter (small inner circle) will be 18" in diameter and the outer

drip line will be 1.5 times 18 or 27' shade radius]

 

For the T-SPR key, you can just put 15" Spruce, Not Measured in the description field, or any other format that you may want to use.  THat will give you the default.  I generally don't do that.   All trees are to be measured, if shown.

 

Now just create your point style to use the tree symbol and set it to a scale of 1 (i think,it's been a few years).

Create a label style using annotative text to put only the description on the point.  The annotative text will scale up and down along with the

symbols if the scale need to change.

 

 

This is kind of complicated, but if you can get one to work, the rest will.  I did anbotu 25 or 30 trees in about  a day, when i did it.

The only reason for th T- is a personal thing.  I use a different tree description key file and T- keeps me from overwriting another key.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Surveyor Lee

  

Message 18 of 25
allywhite666
in reply to: annw2

It was Ian who posted twice not you.

 

There is another possibility but it is a little more work for you.

 

Do as I said above "copy the block you have (ie. at 15') and scale it to 1/15th of the size ( so it is at 1') and save it as a new block."

Then create the single description key by using the standard scaling methods, so when the surveyor puts spruce 36 the symbol will be 36'. This way if the surveyor puts spruce with no number the default symbol you will get will be 1'.

Then create a point group for the points named just "spruce".

If you know how to use point groups you can isolate this group by putting it above the "no display point group" on the list, do this to isolate the points named spruce.

So now you should have just the points spruce on the screen and they all should be a 1' symbol.

Just select everything on the screen (ie. all the points) and go into properties, right click properties, scroll down to annotation and under "x-y scale" change it to 15. This should make all the symbols 15 times bigger ie 15'.

Then turn everything else back on.

 

If I were you it would be easier just to get the surveyors to put in the extra character when noting the trees, you need to give them a good kick in the bum and make them do it. I have done both surveying and survey drafting and it is not hard to just put a underscore before you put in a tree spread. Especially now with the new survey software, they can put "spurce" and "spurce_" in the code library and juts type the spread.

 

Good luck.

Message 19 of 25
cbaildon001
in reply to: allywhite666

If you combine the use of the Description Key Set, Linework Code Set and Figure Prefix Database, this can be solved another way.

 

My post here http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D-General/Different-sized-tree-trunks-and-canopy-Will-t... says:

 

"It can be done by use of the Linework Code Set.

 

For a tree with canopy 15m diameter and trunk diameter of 0.8m I would use a code of "TREE 15 TR C.4"

TREE is in my description key set with the first parameter a scale parameter.

TR is in my Figure prefix database.

C is for circle in the Linework Code Set.

 

So as long as you only use the circle code for tree trunks it should be fine."

 

You can also get it to hatch the trunk circle by modifing the default parcel style and checking "Lot line" in the Figure Prefix database for your trunk code.

 

 

Caleb Baildon
Senior Surveyor
Opus International Consultants Ltd
Wellington, New Zealand
Civil3D 2015 - Windows10
Message 20 of 25
Joe-Bouza
in reply to: allywhite666

Nice avatar :),
Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People)

HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win10 OS

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Rail Community


Autodesk Design & Make Report