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To Vault or Not to Vault?

34 REPLIES 34
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Message 1 of 35
Anonymous
252 Views, 34 Replies

To Vault or Not to Vault?

Anyone have any ideas on this question? Personally, I'm going to
initially shy away from Vault and continue to use Data Shortcuts. It'll
be enough for us just to learn the new C3D features without being confused
by the Vault functions. Plus it sounds like we need a MS SQL server
unless someone else can tell me that it works with open-source database
like MySQL. $$$
34 REPLIES 34
Message 21 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I sure would like to see a white paper on getting MySQL to work with Vault
;-) That would be HUGE!!!

Dave D.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:10:03 -0400, TomD
wrote:

> One of the presenters at BootCamp said that it
> would.......hmmmm.......Adesk
> comment?
>
> IMO, this is NOT a minor issue............there are some folks out here
> using MySQL and this could be a huge issue.
>
> "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
> news:5161561@discussion.autodesk.com...
> vault only runs on SQL Server, MSDE or SQL Server Express 2005. Both
> MSDE
> and SQL Server Express 2005 are free and included with Vault. Vault does
> NOT run on MySQL.
Message 22 of 35
nzeeben
in reply to: Anonymous

I have never seen MySQL listed as supported, I would guess the integration
between vault and the MSFT products are too tight to swap in a different
back end. It may be possible, but my gut says it isn't.


--
Nick Zeeben
Engineered Efficiency
C3D 2007
XP Tablet and Pro
"David Dixon" wrote in message
news:5163037@discussion.autodesk.com...
I sure would like to see a white paper on getting MySQL to work with Vault
;-) That would be HUGE!!!

Dave D.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:10:03 -0400, TomD
wrote:

> One of the presenters at BootCamp said that it
> would.......hmmmm.......Adesk
> comment?
>
> IMO, this is NOT a minor issue............there are some folks out here
> using MySQL and this could be a huge issue.
>
> "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
> news:5161561@discussion.autodesk.com...
> vault only runs on SQL Server, MSDE or SQL Server Express 2005. Both
> MSDE
> and SQL Server Express 2005 are free and included with Vault. Vault does
> NOT run on MySQL.
Message 23 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Kevin,
I read previous posts here where some users are having problems using Xref
"Overlay" with Vault and creating circular xrefs because Vault only uses
the "Attach" option. I haven't tried this because I do not have Vault
installed.

Your approach to using Sheet Set Manager with Vault seems resonable to
me. I don't know why these things have to be so complicated???
Dave

On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:38:14 -0400, kevincurrey wrote:

> Has anyone here addressed the issue of vault & xrefs yet? Specifically
> how would you use sheet set manager with a project in vault? What I
> have been able to come up with so far is that I probably only want to
> have my data drawings in the vault, and have everything else reference
> the "working copy" outside of vault. But it seems like this could get
> hairy if you want to keep all your drawings on a server (as opposed to
> C:\Civil 3D Projects, or whatever).
Message 24 of 35
Shark
in reply to: Anonymous

This is in regards to each Vault as well, right? If you do happen to use 2 GBs in the filestore, one can just start a new Vault?
Message 25 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Correct.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 26 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I agree with you - I was not happy with the whole SQL Server requirement
myself & share your sentiments about paying subscription fees for C3D before
it is production ready. 2007 looks like it has the features necessary, so
we will probably jump in after a service pack or two at least. We've
certainly spent enough time getting ready for it - Autodesk has been
dangling this carrot for over 5 years!

Jon



wrote in message news:5161665@discussion.autodesk.com...
Jon, my truth detector just redlined.
This is shaping up to be quite the upgrade.
First I'm faced with spiraling subscription costs for a product that isn't
ready for production use.
Then I'm told that if you are going to implement you are going to have to
get someone in to help.
Then the unexpected Dollar bomb of another SQL server to use the no longer
available data shortcuts.
Now I find out I won't be able to plot directly to my plotters until they
are reformatted.
And I'm an idiot if I roll this product out for at least 6 month's because
of the dwg format change.
Please don't think I'm shouting at you Jon, from everything I've heard from
people I trust you're good people. I'm just blowing off some steam.

John Postlewait
IS Department
George Butler Associates

xcuse me I'm done here, I got to go rant about the Revit Revolution I have
to deal with also.
Message 27 of 35
Shark
in reply to: Anonymous

Data Shortcuts are not nearly as simple as they were in C3D 2006. If you have multiple objects that you are referencing it can be difficult to remember where to reload these .xml files from. But, if you can manage to keep track of them, they are an alternative answer to Vault. But, as you can tell this would not be useful in a multiple user environment. Message was edited by: Shark
Message 28 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Is that a 10 user login, or 10 trying to access it at once, type of limit?

Rob

"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:5161873@discussion.autodesk.com...
Vault's db is actually only storing pointers and change records, not the dwg
or other data.

2G is a lot of one line pointers, so the ~10 user limit is more of a concern
for most shops.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 29 of 35
Shark
in reply to: Anonymous

To my knowledge you can have as many logins as you want. The 10 user limit is in reference to the suggested amount of users who should access the vault at any given time (at the same time). But, this is still just a suggeestion. You will be able to have more users accessing the vault at one time, but you will most definately experience Lag in Data transfers. In this case you would want to go with the Full MSSQL package.
Message 30 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Not having Vault (or 06 or 07) installed yet, I have questions.

If a user is working in a drawing, does that mean they are a user to vault
the whole time in the drawing?
Or just when accessing Vault for checkin/out?
Does C3D access Vault on its own?
How many drawings can be checked out per user?
Is there a time limit they can be cheked out?

I have looked at the Adesk web site and newsgroups and just end up with more
questions than answers.

So, MANY thanks for any answers. It really helps.


Rob




wrote in message news:5177757@discussion.autodesk.com...
To my knowledge you can have as many logins as you want. The 10 user limit
is in reference to the suggested amount of users who should access the vault
at any given time (at the same time). But, this is still just a
suggeestion. You will be able to have more users accessing the vault at one
time, but you will most definately experience Lag in Data transfers. In
this case you would want to go with the Full MSSQL package.
Message 31 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

The 10 user limit is in reference to what XP allows. Installed on Server
2003 and it becomes a function of the database.

http://tinyurl.com/el5rn
--

sm

Scott McEachron
DC CADD, Dallas - Fort Worth
http://c3dpavingtheway.blogspot.com/


wrote in message news:5177757@discussion.autodesk.com...
To my knowledge you can have as many logins as you want. The 10 user limit
is in reference to the suggested amount of users who should access the vault
at any given time (at the same time). But, this is still just a
suggeestion. You will be able to have more users accessing the vault at one
time, but you will most definately experience Lag in Data transfers. In
this case you would want to go with the Full MSSQL package.
Message 32 of 35
Shark
in reply to: Anonymous

When you start Civil 3D 2007, you can either log in automatically or manually login to the Vault Via the Master view in the Prospector tab.
In this way, Civil 3D acts as a client to the server installed either locally on your own machine, or on another computer connected over the network.

So, if you choose not to login to the vault, either on startup or manually, you can still draw without being logged into a vault. But, if you want to access Drawings that are part of the vault, then yes, you will need to login and check them out, or obtain a (Read Only) version depending on your user privileges or situational preference. I hope this is not getting to complicated.

I believe a user can access as many Drawings as she/he wants, but I may be wrong in this. In my experience of using this new project setup, I have been able to open and work in all the .DWGs in my vault at one time (about 4-5 drawings). This environment can be tricky cause in order for the changes to update you have to save the drawing, and then check the drawing back in. When using references, you then have to sync the child .dwg to the project, where the changes in the parent .dwg will carry over to the child. Kind of complicating, but a very nice feature.

Remember, that when you check out a .dwg, no one else can open that .dwg from the vault. So, it may be wise to only check out the .DWGs that you need to be working in.

As far as a time limit, I do not think that there is a cut off point. Someone else might be able to answer this one.

I hope this helps you.

Best,

Shark
Message 33 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

So, when I install Vault on the server, (which is the plan) I am not limited
to 10 peoples logged in at once?

I guess I need to see it in action, so to speak. Are there any webcasts
yet?
Even a decent set of manuals, install and use, would help.
And I did read the ones on the DVD. My guess is they were written BY an
I.T. guy FOR an I.T. guy. Which I am not.

More questions:
There are users here who open multiple instances of LDT at the moment
(against my advice), will Vault affect this practice?
We will probally logon to Vault automatically with C3D, so every user is
logged into Vault also. Is that correct?
Or would it be better to login to Vault, check out dwg, log out of Vault, do
the work, log back into Vault and check in the dwg?


I understand Mechanical has used Vault for several years, it must work good,
right...


Shark and Scott, Many Thanks.


"Scott McEachron" wrote in message
news:5178068@discussion.autodesk.com...
The 10 user limit is in reference to what XP allows. Installed on Server
2003 and it becomes a function of the database.

http://tinyurl.com/el5rn
--

sm

Scott McEachron
DC CADD, Dallas - Fort Worth
http://c3dpavingtheway.blogspot.com/


wrote in message news:5177757@discussion.autodesk.com...
To my knowledge you can have as many logins as you want. The 10 user limit
is in reference to the suggested amount of users who should access the vault
at any given time (at the same time). But, this is still just a
suggeestion. You will be able to have more users accessing the vault at one
time, but you will most definately experience Lag in Data transfers. In
this case you would want to go with the Full MSSQL package.
Message 34 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous


wrote in message news:5161665@discussion.autodesk.com...
Now I find out I won't be able to plot directly to my plotters until they
are reformatted.


Is there some documentation on this?
What needs to be done to plot in 07? (C3D and companions)?

Rob
Message 35 of 35
Shark
in reply to: Anonymous

In order to Check out DWGs from the vault and work on them you will need to stay logged into the Vault.

If you are going to have 10 or fewer clients logged into a vault at any given time then the versions of SQL that Vault provides will be fine. But, if you intend to have more then 10 users at a time accessing the Vault, then you will more then likely want to go with a full version of MSSQL.

Scott might be able to answer this one better then me. I am pretty sure that you can have more then 10 users on the SQL server they give you, but I may be wrong. Anybody, please correct me if this is incorrect.

Best,

Shark

Oh, and don't worry if it takes you a little bit of time to figure this stuff out. It took me three days to figure out how to login to a vault server on another computer then the one I was on. This whole Vault thing is new to us all.

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