Structure Rims Adjusting above surface when changing Pipe Inverts (C3D 2014)

[Anonymous]

I am having trouble with rim elevations automatically adjusting above the referenced surface when modifying pipe inverts in Civil 3D 2014.

For example...after creating a new drainage pipe network and setting the desired reference suface, I add my pipe and structure labels.  Everything looks correct.  Structure rims match the surface being referenced.  Then, as I adjust pipe inverts under pipe properties, the structure rim automatically changes to be 5.2' higher than the invert elevation, thus making the structures rim no longer matching with the correct surface elevation.  I have checked my rules, and don't see anywhere where this problem could be occuring.  Once I see the incorrect rim value, I click on the structure, right click structure properties, and review the info in the four available tabs.  Then, after not changing ANYTHING, I click okay, and the rim elevation goes back to correct elevation from the reference surface.  If i have to change the invert again, I have to repeat the same process to get the correct rim elevation.  It is happening in multiple drawings on all structures.

My last version was Civil 3D 2011 and I did not have the same problem.  I also saved my 2011 template into 2014, so all pipe rules, styles, etc. should be the same as what I was using in 2011 version.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

-Chrs

[MikeEvansUK]

I think your depth may be less than the allowable height from the pipe to the crown of the pipe. Try adjusting the depth and see if that is the case.

Some structures have the default height ("SBSH" as defined in the part) set between limits min/max, partly to prevent zero height or negative height structures.

If not then the other culprit could be the surface adjustment value, check that too.

[SkipBurns]

Check the setting for "Vertical Pipe Clearance" on the pipes.

We have had issues with the standard structures because they have a "Vertical Pipe Clearance" setting of i believe 20" hardcoded into them.  On shallow pipes, when the invert is changed above that it will adjust the rim to be 20" above the top of the pipe.  We ended up making our own parts.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input.  Unfortunately, nothing I tried fixed the problem, and now having the same problem in 2015 version.  I tried eliminating the assigned rules and everything else I could think of, but it did not help. I created a simple file for example and have attached.  Please look at CB1 and CB2 in the file.  The "surface elevation at insertion point" for both CBs is 97.1'.  When I change the starting invert to be 93.1', the "insertion rim elevation" jumps to 98.2' (as does the label).  If I move the structure 10'in one direction (horizontally), and then move it 10' back to its original location, the rim corrects itself back to elevation 97.1'.  I tried changing the pipe rule for cover from 3' down to 2' and tried it again, but I got the same problematic result.  The problem does not occur when adjusting the pipe inverts to an elevation that is at least 5.1' below the rim elevation.

Could it be a problem related to the parts in my template, or is it software related??  These are the same parts that our company was using in the 2011 software, and did not have the problem.  We have saved up the template and used in 2014 and 2015 software, and now have the problems describe above. 

Thx,

Chris

[Anonymous]

Has anyone tried the CAD file attachment in my previous post?  I am still having the same issues and have not found any relief from the original described problem.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

[kcobabe]

To fix your issue you will need to go into the partbuilder and change the Vertical Pipe Clearance in the part.  I have done this with all of my Generic Structures which allows me to have the structure the exact size of the pipe.  This helps when you have shallow pipes.

[sirjoelsph]

Chris,

I've found that it will reset the rim to the surface elevation simply by going into the structure properties and changing the number of the sump depth (even if you just type the same number) and click apply and ok.  This is only a temporary fix to 'trick' cad into looking at the surface again.  The only permanent solution would be editing the part catalog itself.

[Anonymous]

Thanks kcobabe and sirjoelsph...looks like making that change in partbuilder will work.  We had someone come in and help make some custom parts a few years back...now I just need to figure out how go in and fix them!

Thanks again.

-Chris

[kcobabe]

Just make sure you put the catalog on a network where everyone has access to it.  You should not read to your C drive if you don't use the OOTB catalog.  You'll thank me later.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for everyone's help so far.  I've made some edits in partbuilder to change the Vertical Pipe Clearance parameter value, etc...however, I am still not sure how to eliminate the rim elevation from adjusting above the referenced surface.  For instance, let's say the minimum vertical pipe clearance for the structure is set to 36".  If the invert is set at an elevation that results in the actual pipe clearance to be 33" below the rim (thus not meeting the built-in minimum pipe clearance value), the rim automatically jumps up 3" above the referenced surface so that the 36" requirement is met.  That does not seem to be a good feature at all!!  Then, to make things worse, if the invert is changed to a lower elevation that meets the 36" requirement, the rim value does not correct itself back to the surface elevation, unless the structure is moved and then moved back to its original location.  What would seems to make more sense is for the software to restrict or give error messages when inputting invert elevations that will not meet the requirement instead of creating invalid rims.  Is there any setting or way around having rim values changed to incorrect values?

Thx