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ArchD
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎07-30-2008
Message 1 of 16 (847 Views)
Accepted Solution

Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

847 Views, 15 Replies
03-28-2013 08:25 AM

What would be the best way to create a stage storage report with a basin that has mulitple depressions and high points in the bottom of the basin?

 

The stage storage report seems to calculate these features as an addition when it should be subtracting for high points.

 

Could I do a bounded volume and set the datum to each increment of storage? How accurate is that? If it's accurate, is there a way do generate multiple at a time instead of typing D then setting the datum, then repeating that process over and over?

 

The only way that seems the most accurate is to create multiple planes at different increments, add those to seperate surfaces, then a volume surface for each one comparing it to the basin. This method takes up a ton of time, especially when dealing with 50+ increments.

Archie Dodge

Civil 3D 2013
Windows 7 64-bit
Xeon W3550 3.07 GHz
Nvidia Quadro 4000
12.0 GB RAM
*Expert Elite*
BrianHailey
Posts: 2,749
Registered: ‎04-27-2005
Message 2 of 16 (809 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

03-29-2013 07:35 PM in reply to: ArchD

Create a surface for your high water elevation (WSEL).

 

Create a volume surface between your WSEL and pond.

 

Run an Elevation Analysis on the volume surface using the Range Interval with Datum option (set your datum to 0).

 

Create an elevation table for the volume surface.

 

Edit the table to show the range volume.

 

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ArchD
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎07-30-2008
Message 3 of 16 (775 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

04-01-2013 07:23 AM in reply to: BrianHailey

Thanks so much, I'm going to try it out and as soon as I'm able to replicate what you have done, I'll accept it as the solution.

Archie Dodge

Civil 3D 2013
Windows 7 64-bit
Xeon W3550 3.07 GHz
Nvidia Quadro 4000
12.0 GB RAM
*Expert Elite*
jmayo
Posts: 2,699
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 4 of 16 (758 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

04-01-2013 11:39 AM in reply to: ArchD

You can also type StageStorage into the command line and automatically create a table for export to text or to create in the current dwg. Tsis command works with surfaces and polyline contours.

John Mayo, PE
IDSP 2014
Win 7 64, Xeon ES165@3.2Ghz,
64 GB RAM, Quadro K4000 (x2)
Mentor
ArchD
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎07-30-2008
Message 5 of 16 (755 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

04-01-2013 11:42 AM in reply to: jmayo

The stagestorage command does not accurately calculate basins with depressions and mounds in the bottom. Say if you had a small mound in the bottom of your basin, C3D does not subtract this contour from the report correctly as it should.

 

I used Brians method and manually checked it and it is accurate. I had to create an excel template to be able to export the result into to generate a report in our format our engineers will accept though. These guys accept less formats than C3D point formats, and you can't train them to learn new ones either...

 

Archie Dodge

Civil 3D 2013
Windows 7 64-bit
Xeon W3550 3.07 GHz
Nvidia Quadro 4000
12.0 GB RAM
*Expert Elite*
jmayo
Posts: 2,699
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 6 of 16 (747 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

04-01-2013 11:55 AM in reply to: ArchD

Depends on you model and data whether it picks up depressions (user contours) but it is after all an avg end area.

John Mayo, PE
IDSP 2014
Win 7 64, Xeon ES165@3.2Ghz,
64 GB RAM, Quadro K4000 (x2)
Mentor
david.zavislan
Posts: 254
Registered: ‎10-31-2006
Message 7 of 16 (722 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

04-02-2013 07:41 AM in reply to: ArchD

Don't use the range volume values from the elevation analysis.  They are not the volume of that elevation stage.  They represent the volume of all material above that range area. 

 

You can use the Surface Range 2D areas.  Incrementally adding them, starting with the lowest, to generate the area of each elevation range.  

David Zavislan, P.E. | Wood Rodgers, Inc.
*Expert Elite*
BrianHailey
Posts: 2,749
Registered: ‎04-27-2005
Message 8 of 16 (714 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

04-02-2013 08:26 AM in reply to: david.zavislan

david.zavislan wrote:

Don't use the range volume values from the elevation analysis.  They are not the volume of that elevation stage.  They represent the volume of all material above that range area. 

 

You can use the Surface Range 2D areas.  Incrementally adding them, starting with the lowest, to generate the area of each elevation range.  


I disagree. Go ahead and use them, just understand what they are. They are not a cumulative volue, they are the volume of that specific range. For example, I created a pond with two low points (two pyramids side by side basically), and a water surface elevation surface (the same elevation as the top of the pond), created a volume surface, ran a surface analysis, and then created the table showing the surface range volume.

 

I then extracted the contours from the surface to check the table (I used the conic approximation equation) and it matched almost exactly.

 

The range volume is just that, the volume from the top of the range to the bottom of the range. If you want a stage storage, start at the bottom range and that's the volume up to that elevation. Add in the next range at that's your next Stage Storage point. Add in the next range and that's the third Stage Storage point. You just need to keep adding the ranges as it gets deeper.

*Expert Elite*
BrianHailey
Posts: 2,749
Registered: ‎04-27-2005
Message 9 of 16 (710 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

04-02-2013 08:36 AM in reply to: BrianHailey

Here's the data I used for the test.

 

 

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troma
Posts: 2,519
Registered: ‎05-21-2008
Message 10 of 16 (708 Views)

Re: Stage Storage with Depression in Bottom

04-02-2013 08:41 AM in reply to: BrianHailey

I'm a little confused.  David said "They represent the volume of all material above that range area."  But Brian says " they are the volume of that specific range...the volume from the top of the range to the bottom of the range."  Which is it?  I hope Brian is right; his explanation makes more sense to me.

 

So then, this does incremental volumes rather than cumulative?  That's fine, so long as I can bring the table into a spreadsheet and add a formula in the next column to find the cumulative.  The table should also include the surface area at every stage.

 

Here is my old wish.


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