Recreating a roadway from paper plans for estimating purposes

[dan2463]

Hello,

I currently work for a construction company, we mostly focus on roadway rehabilitaion. We recieve DOT paper plans containing the construction plans and cross sections. I have been till now using the cross sections to build the roadway in Agtek, which is the software we use, then from there I can do my takeoff for excavation, utlites and areas. We have the 2012 BIM software and i'm very intersted in using that to rebuild the plans so I can preform the takeoff just as the DOT does as well as to model the utilities. Also i'm intersted in creating the model to show the estimators and the higher ups, so we can create a phasing plans, traffic plans or how we would want to handle the roadway rehab in general. I'm a novice in terms of Civil 3D, so this would be something i'd be practicing at home first. My question is does anyone else do this, taking premade plans and recreating them? Is it worth and helpful? How do I even begin to do it. If so which other programs would you suggest other than Civil 3d? 

-Dan

[ToddRogers-WPM]

Sounds like a job for InfraWorks.  Have you seen what it can do?  You can do conceptual design and rough cost estimates with a "realistic" environment.

[jmayo-EE]

You may be intrested in the xsectosrf plugin.

http://autodesk.typepad.com/transportation/2012/10/x-section-to-surface.html

[dgordon]

I work for Prein&Newhof, and We provide a service to Contractors whereby we take the paper plans and and digital information they can provide and we build a digital model for the contractors machine grading equipment. once built the model can be used to help estimate cuts & fills and other quantities. We also provide points for storm sanitary and watermain as well as curb and sidewalk staking points for gps layout. I do all this with civil 3D 2011 at present. So as you see it can be done. You can learn how to do it yourself or take advantage of others who already have the experience.

[dan2463]

Looing at the video for that add-on, it is essentially what I do with the Agtek program we use, just a little more involved and seems like in Civil it produces a nicer model. Do you use this add-on at all or often?

[dan2463]

Trodgers, 

I'll check out infraworks, it seems like what I'm looking for as far as presentation goes. But as we are a contractor who doesn't design the roadway more of just taking what the DOT has designed and estimating the coast to do that job, ill have to see how I can use it.

[jmayo-EE]

Sorry Dan I have not used it.

[neilyj666]

I've used the xsect2surf tool and it works well based on vanilla CAD plans but I woudn't use Infraworks for any kind of cost estimation although it is very good at the visual "touchy feely" stuff to show the "high ups" although there is a bit of fiddling about to get it looking right when approaching from a contractors point of view (which is mine)

[sboon]

There is another product called Autodesk Quantity Takeoff which might be worth looking at.  I believe that it is intended for what you're trying to do.  I recall seeing a session on it at AU, either last year or in 2011.

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

[ToddRogers-WPM]

I think you need Revit for QTO don't you?

[sboon]

I don't think so; it seems to be a separate product.  I just discovered that it has its own forum.  I've been scanning it to see if anyone is using this software for estimating Civil works.  If I recall correctly the AU session I attended was being taught by a paving and roadworks contractor.

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

[ToddRogers-WPM]

Good to know.  Let me know what you find out.  Thanks.

[dan2463]

This is all very helpful, I'll check out the QTO program sboon. I'm mostly trying to reverse engineer the construction plans which looks like I can do via the cross section add-on. My next issue is doing quantity take off based on that road way created.

[neilyj666]

Have you asked for any 3D model information as it seems very wasteful to have to do this manually - it seems to be prevalent amongst clients not to supply digital 3D data presumably to avoid any possible litigation/liability down the line.

So much for the fantastic BIM dream that Autodesk is pushing relentlessly where everyone shares data and models - we are still a long way from that ideal in the Civil 3D world

[dan2463]

Yeah we never get and 3D or CAD info prior to the job being awarded. We are lucky if we get smart PDF's in which I can use to convert to CAD format. I assume it is for litigation/liabality as to not temper with the orginal plans. We only recieve CAD data after we win the job

So far it seems the BIM is going to be proven usless until data and models can be provided for everyone. I'd like it seen more useful for contractor's and not just egineering firms.

[troma]

Liability, for sure. The engineer stamps the drawings, not the 'model'. So it's always the drawings (on paper!) that are checked, double checked, and certified. At that stage no one knows (or cares) if the model is right or wrong.
As far as I can see, we need a way for the engineer to check over and certify the model. Until that happens, sharing BIM will remain a dream. (As it is right now, we do send out digital drawings. But they go with a big disclaimer basically saying that you better check for yourself that they agree with the paper version.)

[dan2463]

I mean the paper design is printed of the CAD file. So if the plans are stamped you'd assume the CAD file used to print it is right. Just hoping someday the CAD file of the job could be given along with the paper plans for bidding purposes. Making for easier takeoff as I don't have to retrace areas. Also then I could have the existing surface and design for grading without having to reverse digitize them.

[troma]

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@dan2463 wrote:
... if the plans are stamped you'd assume the CAD file used to print it is right...

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Quite the assumption!  You don't know what's x-reffed, broken data shortcuts, drawn in paperspace or otherwise fudged in the digital.  It should be right, but I wouldn't go assuming!  Like I say, the paper is what is checked and certified, not the model.

We do send out digital (and I'm sure if you could get it you would find it much better than what you're doing right now), but it's up to the contractor to figure out how useful it is.  They must check that it agrees with what they see on paper.

(I'm not saying this is the best system, but it's the current system.)