Point Style dictates Label layer, yet Label remains visible when layer frozen?

[aewatson]

We are using Civil 3D 2010 and only now getting used to manipulating point visibility via point groups, point styles and label styles.

I'd appreciate some help understanding two behaviors regarding point management.

1. Point marker and label layer behavior:

• I have a point style "CONC" which places a typical "X" marker on layer V-NODE-CONC and its associated label on layer V-NODE-CONC-TEXT.
• I have a label style "PED" which displays point number, elevation and description on layer V-NODE-TEXT.
• I have a point group that includes all points with the raw description "CONC*" and uses point style "CONC" and label style "PED".
• With all layers thawn, all CONC points show their markers and labels as expected.
• If I freeze V-NODE-CONC, all CONC point markers disappear as expected.
• If I freeze V-NODE-CONC-TEXT, all CONC point labels remain visible, which is unexpected.
• If I freeze V-NODE-TEXT, all point labels including CONC point labels disappear.
• If I undo the last step (or thaw V-NODE-TEXT), and explode a CONC point, the label disappears, I'm guessing because V-NODE-CONC-TEXT was frozen 2 steps ago, but why did it remain thawed when the point was not exploded?

A bigger question is, what is the best way to use point groups to dictate appropriate layers for point markers and labels such that their appearance can be controlled through regular layer management?

2. Right-click point group > Select does not select anythihng.

• With any point group highlighted in the Toolspace pane, right-clicking it and clicking "Select" achieves nothing visibly apparent.

I am assuming it will select all points in the drawing and make their properties available in the Properties task-pane, yet the Properties task pane reads "No selection".  Am I misunderstanding this tool's purpose?

Thanks.

Andrew

[stacy.dunn]

Andrew,

Are the styles assigned directly to the point, or are they assigned by the point group?

A layer assigned in the point label style supersedes the layer assigned in a point style.  This is why freezing V-NODE-CONC-TEXT does nothing, but freezing V-NODE-TEXT does.

There are different ways to set up points and labels.  It really depends on how much control you need. 

for example:

a sewer manhole point style with the marker assigned to layer V-SSWR-STRC.  The label layer in the point style is set to 0.  The label style would have its layer assigned to V-SSWR-STRC-ANNO. The point would be on V-NODE-SSWR as assigned by the description keys on import. 

freeze V-SSWR-STRC, then the symbol is not visible.

freeze V-SSWR-STRC-ANNO, then the label is not visible.

freeze V-NODE-SSWR, then both are not visible.

[aewatson]

Thanks for the reply.

In answer to your question, the styles are assigned to point groups.

If that is the case (your description of label styles and point styles behavior), of what purpose is the point style's layer setting for the label?  In what way can it be used?

I was hoping I could have a few generic label styles that are shared by my point styles, each point style dictating the layers for markers and labels.

For an over-simplified example:

Label styles:

• E (elevation only, label layer: V-NODE-ANNO)

Point styles:

• CONC (marker layer: V-NODE-CONC, label layer: V-NODE-CONC-ANNO, label style: E)
• GRND (marker layer: V-NODE-GRND, labe layer: V-NODE-GRND-ANNO, label style: E)
• PVMT (marker layer: V-NODE-PVMT, label layer: V-NODE-PVMT-ANNO, label style: E)

But if I'm understanding you correctly, the label layers defined in my point styles are worthless because the label style E supercedes the label layer defined in the point styles and puts the labels on V-NODE-ANNO.

You mention having the points inserted on the correct layer during insertion using a descriptor key file and controlling their visibility through their insertion layer.  We are getting around to that, but this brings me to the second part of my original question, is there not a way to select all the points in a drawing that belong to a point group?

If I right-click on a point group in the toolspace, I see an option to "Select", but when I choose that option, nothing is selected.  Am I alone on this, or is their some other type of 'selection' that is going on that is not a standard Autocad selection (like maybe the point data is selected, not the graphic objects)?

To clarify, I am assuming that right-clicking a point group name and clicking on "Select" would select all C3D points in the drawing that belong to that point group, just as though I had typed "Select" at the command prompt and picked each and every point that was in that group, so that their properties would be visible from the Properties task pane.  If I'm mistaken, what does right-click "Select" do?

Thanks again,

Andrew

[stacy.dunn]

If you want to control the layer of the label inside the point style, set the layer in label style "E" to 0.  This will give control of the layer to the point style.

I cannot answer the question about selecting point groups as I have 2009, which does not have that command.

[aewatson]

Stacy,

That did it. Thanks for suggesting that. I should have tried that before my last post.

Andrew

[Sinc]

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@aewatson wrote:

2. Right-click point group > Select does not select anythihng.

• With any point group highlighted in the Toolspace pane, right-clicking it and clicking "Select" achieves nothing visibly apparent.

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It's hard to keep track of all the bugs, but I believe that function is broken in 2010, and was not fixed until the 2011 release.  I believe it should work as expected on C3D 2011 and later.