Pipe or Structure Style?

[msmkb5335]

Back in Land Desktop we would label our pipes and structures like this... (see attachment). I've made a pipe label style for the "length, slope, and material" of the pipe and I've made a structure label style for the "MH number, station, and rim elev"
Now I'm trying to make a label for the invert in and out of the pipe at the structure. I can't use a structure label because I can't find the option to label the connected pipe inverts (does this even exist?) and I can't use a pipe label because I can't get the label to appear any where except at the midpoint of the pipe (is it possible to make the label appear at the beginning or end of the pipe?). I am open to any suggestions as to what to do.
I'm running 2007 with sp3 installed.

Thanks,

Matt Miller E.I.
Great River Engineering
Springfield, MO

[mmccall]

I believe the item you're looking for is the 'text for each' component of the structure label. It's a special text-like component for labelling information about the structure's connected pipes.

[msmkb5335]

Thanks, that is exactly what I needed.

Matt

[msmkb5335]

okay, I have the invert style set up now, but I have a new question:

Is there a way to get the lines of my structure label to stop at the structure instead of continuing to the center?
(see attachment)

Thanks,

Matt Miller E.I.
Great River Engineering
Springfield, MO

[Civil3DReminders_com]

Under Toolspace, Settings, Right Click Pipe Network and change the Default Profile Label Placement, Structure Label Placement to Top or Bottom depending on which one you are labeling. You may have to change it between the label on top and bottom.

[mmccall]

Yup

Toolspace --> settings --> Rt. click the Pipe Network and choose 'Edit Feature Settings'. You should see a section for default profile label placement. One of those items is structure label placement. It has three settings, at top, middle, or bottom. The product ships with it set to middle.

Now, there are actually two commands that can add labels to structure. One labels the entire network and does it just for the current structure. Both of these command also have this setting and will inherit the setting as described above. Depending on the labelling results you require you may find it more useful to have each of these commands anchor the label in a different manner. You can do that by setting the value for each command separately.

[msmkb5335]

Thank you guys for the replies. So there is no way to set it up where one label style inserts to the top of the structure and the other one inserts to the bottom of the structure? I have to change either the feature setting or the command setting.

Matt Message was edited by: msmkb5335

[mmccall]

I personally think it should be part of the label style but it's not. It's stored within the commands that place the labels, and there are two of them. This is what I was trying to describe. One command will label the entire network and the other will label one structure at a time. Each of these command can have a different setting. This allows you to set one to the top and one to the bottom. Label the entire network and the labels go to the top. Label them one by one and they'll go to the bottom.

Go back to the settings tab and you'll see two commands listed below the pipe network commands section for placing labels in a profile. They can be changed individually here.

[Cliff Patterson]

You can create two structure label styles one for the rim, sta, etc. then another for the invert info only, You can then label the structure twice once for the top then the bottom.


Cliff Patterson
Rocke & Associates
Fort Wayne, IN.
Civil 3d 2007, SP-3
Xeon 2.80 Ghz, 2.0 GB Ram

[msmkb5335]

I guess I can make the "label all" command insert at the bottom since that label will always be the same for each structure, and make the "label single" command insert at the top since the top note will be different depending on what type of structure it is (manhole, inlet, junction box, etc.) I guess that will work, but it is just one more thing for everyone to remember as they make a set of plans.

I agree, it should be part of the label style itself, that would work much better.

Thanks again for your help,

Matt

[Anonymous]

While we're on the subject of pipes and labels...

Is it possible to dynamically dimension a pipe from edge of manhole to edge
of manhole instead of center of manhole to center of manhole?

Chris


wrote in message news:5547739@discussion.autodesk.com...
I guess I can make the "label all" command insert at the bottom since that
label will always be the same for each structure, and make the "label
single" command insert at the top since the top note will be different
depending on what type of structure it is (manhole, inlet, junction box,
etc.) I guess that will work, but it is just one more thing for everyone to
remember as they make a set of plans.

I agree, it should be part of the label style itself, that would work much
better.

Thanks again for your help,

Matt

[Anonymous]

inside edge of structure yes
outside edge of structure- not without an expression.

--
Dana Breig Probert, E.I.T.
http://www.civil3d.com
----------------------------------
Register for the AUGI CAD Matinee in Philadelphia on May 17.

I'll be teaching: Using Civil 3D 2008 for Stormwater Management Tasks and A
Subdivision from Boundary to Plat with Civil 3D 2008

Visit http://www.cadmatinee.com/philadelphia/default.asp for more complete
agenda and registration.

[Anonymous]

Ok... that would work. How would one do inside edge of structure to inside
edge of structure? (not too familiar with lisp scripting... is it a standard
feature?)

Thanks.

Chris

"Dana Breig Probert" wrote in message
news:5548666@discussion.autodesk.com...
inside edge of structure yes
outside edge of structure- not without an expression.

--
Dana Breig Probert, E.I.T.
http://www.civil3d.com
----------------------------------
Register for the AUGI CAD Matinee in Philadelphia on May 17.

I'll be teaching: Using Civil 3D 2008 for Stormwater Management Tasks and A
Subdivision from Boundary to Plat with Civil 3D 2008

Visit http://www.cadmatinee.com/philadelphia/default.asp for more complete
agenda and registration.

[Anonymous]

when you compose your label, 2d or 3d length to inside edges is a choice in
the label composer. nothing special needed.

--
Dana Breig Probert, E.I.T.
http://www.civil3d.com
----------------------------------
Register for the AUGI CAD Matinee in Philadelphia on May 17.

I'll be teaching: Using Civil 3D 2008 for Stormwater Management Tasks and A
Subdivision from Boundary to Plat with Civil 3D 2008

Visit http://www.cadmatinee.com/philadelphia/default.asp for more complete
agenda and registration.

"At a Loss" wrote in message
news:5549002@discussion.autodesk.com...
Ok... that would work. How would one do inside edge of structure to inside
edge of structure? (not too familiar with lisp scripting... is it a standard
feature?)

Thanks.

Chris

"Dana Breig Probert" wrote in message
news:5548666@discussion.autodesk.com...
inside edge of structure yes
outside edge of structure- not without an expression.

--
Dana Breig Probert, E.I.T.
http://www.civil3d.com
----------------------------------
Register for the AUGI CAD Matinee in Philadelphia on May 17.

I'll be teaching: Using Civil 3D 2008 for Stormwater Management Tasks and A
Subdivision from Boundary to Plat with Civil 3D 2008

Visit http://www.cadmatinee.com/philadelphia/default.asp for more complete
agenda and registration.

[Anonymous]

OK... that works. Now how about the slope from inside edge to inside edge.
We can't manage to have it not be related to the center of the manhole.

Thanks!

Chris

"Dana Breig Probert" wrote in message
news:5549011@discussion.autodesk.com...
when you compose your label, 2d or 3d length to inside edges is a choice in
the label composer. nothing special needed.

--
Dana Breig Probert, E.I.T.
http://www.civil3d.com
----------------------------------
Register for the AUGI CAD Matinee in Philadelphia on May 17.

I'll be teaching: Using Civil 3D 2008 for Stormwater Management Tasks and A
Subdivision from Boundary to Plat with Civil 3D 2008

Visit http://www.cadmatinee.com/philadelphia/default.asp for more complete
agenda and registration.

"At a Loss" wrote in message
news:5549002@discussion.autodesk.com...
Ok... that would work. How would one do inside edge of structure to inside
edge of structure? (not too familiar with lisp scripting... is it a standard
feature?)

Thanks.

Chris

"Dana Breig Probert" wrote in message
news:5548666@discussion.autodesk.com...
inside edge of structure yes
outside edge of structure- not without an expression.

--
Dana Breig Probert, E.I.T.
http://www.civil3d.com
----------------------------------
Register for the AUGI CAD Matinee in Philadelphia on May 17.

I'll be teaching: Using Civil 3D 2008 for Stormwater Management Tasks and A
Subdivision from Boundary to Plat with Civil 3D 2008

Visit http://www.cadmatinee.com/philadelphia/default.asp for more complete
agenda and registration.

[Anonymous]

It's a hard knock life, ain't it? Slope is always based on the structure CL
to structure CL.

Cry me a river. Too late. I already cried myself one over this issue.

Search these discussion groups and see the endless commentary on how you
cannot do a true structure to sturcture design in Civil 3D in 2007 and 2008.
It;s been talked about millions of times. If you are using the discussion
group through the web, try the search option.

Here are a few links to get you started

http://www.civil3d.com/index.php/2006/10/labeling-your-structure-to-structure-design/

http://www.civil3d.com/index.php/2006/11/do-your-drawings-require-pipe-crossings-or-pipe-bands/

http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=520634

http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5339174

I have endlessly tried every expression hack i could think of, but you can't
combine structures or pipes in the same expression so i can't even do a
freaking slope calc. maybe someone out there is smarter than me and can
figure it out.

The non solutions that have been offered to me range from the somewhat
nonsensical to the completely inane.

Here are a few examples:

"Tell your municipality that they do it wrong"- Thanks, but I'd like to get
my permit without changing the regulations. And just because in Upper
Island Sound City they don't require structure to structure design doesn't
mean my town is completely stone age for requiring it.

"Slope is slope whether you measure it from CL to CL or Edge to Edge"- Um...
no, not really. If your pipe is shorter and the drop is subtracted out the
slope differs, even if only by a few tenths, it's not the same. If you want
to argue this one, let me draw you a picture then roll it up really tight
and cram it in your nose.

"It's all bunk anyway. We call out 2D length when the pipe will really be
cut to be long enough in 3D right? So what does it matter?"- Dude, I don't
give a flying fig. I just know what my spec says and what I am supposed to
do.

So let me write my congressmen or call the state board or get out my soapbox
and take it down to the county hall and shout through a megaphone that the
COUNTY SHOULD ACCEPT CENTER TO CENTER DESIGN BECAUSE AUTODESK SAYS SO.

and it is me who spent $8000 on software and $40million on training for
something that is so unbelieveably ridiculous to argue about. From a
programming perspective it is possibly hard to do, I don't know. I am not a
programmer. I am a designer and a consultant and a human being and a mother
and a few other things (after this post I might get that female dog title
again) who has to sit in front of people and show them how they can import
all kinds of crap from google earth, and the survey point codes are up to US
govt airport standards

but they can't design structure to structure

and they can't get a comma in a label of any kind

I've had a bad day.

dana

[Anonymous]

Ok... point taken.

Thanks for your input - hope your evening goes better.

Chris


"Dana Breig Probert" wrote in message
news:5549093@discussion.autodesk.com...
It's a hard knock life, ain't it? Slope is always based on the structure CL
to structure CL.

Cry me a river. Too late. I already cried myself one over this issue.

Search these discussion groups and see the endless commentary on how you
cannot do a true structure to sturcture design in Civil 3D in 2007 and
2008..
It;s been talked about millions of times. If you are using the discussion
group through the web, try the search option.

Here are a few links to get you started

http://www.civil3d.com/index.php/2006/10/labeling-your-structure-to-structure-design/

http://www.civil3d.com/index.php/2006/11/do-your-drawings-require-pipe-crossings-or-pipe-bands/

http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=520634

http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5339174

I have endlessly tried every expression hack i could think of, but you can't
combine structures or pipes in the same expression so i can't even do a
freaking slope calc. maybe someone out there is smarter than me and can
figure it out.

The non solutions that have been offered to me range from the somewhat
nonsensical to the completely inane.

Here are a few examples:

"Tell your municipality that they do it wrong"- Thanks, but I'd like to get
my permit without changing the regulations. And just because in Upper
Island Sound City they don't require structure to structure design doesn't
mean my town is completely stone age for requiring it.

"Slope is slope whether you measure it from CL to CL or Edge to Edge"-
Um....
no, not really. If your pipe is shorter and the drop is subtracted out the
slope differs, even if only by a few tenths, it's not the same. If you want
to argue this one, let me draw you a picture then roll it up really tight
and cram it in your nose.

"It's all bunk anyway. We call out 2D length when the pipe will really be
cut to be long enough in 3D right? So what does it matter?"- Dude, I don't
give a flying fig. I just know what my spec says and what I am supposed to
do.

So let me write my congressmen or call the state board or get out my soapbox
and take it down to the county hall and shout through a megaphone that the
COUNTY SHOULD ACCEPT CENTER TO CENTER DESIGN BECAUSE AUTODESK SAYS SO.

and it is me who spent $8000 on software and $40million on training for
something that is so unbelieveably ridiculous to argue about. From a
programming perspective it is possibly hard to do, I don't know. I am not a
programmer. I am a designer and a consultant and a human being and a mother
and a few other things (after this post I might get that female dog title
again) who has to sit in front of people and show them how they can import
all kinds of crap from google earth, and the survey point codes are up to US
govt airport standards

but they can't design structure to structure

and they can't get a comma in a label of any kind

I've had a bad day.

dana

[mmccall]

Chris,
I have an idea but I'm pretty sure it falls into the 'inane' category and would be unworkable in a large scale design, however, on a small scale, with a few structures and pipes, it might get you by until something better comes along. C3D uses the pipe as it's drawn for standard pipe length and slope calculation. It defaults to drawing the pipes to the center of the structure, ... but you can physically grab the ends of the pipes and move them to the side walls of the structure. As long as the pipe ends within the limits of the structure it'll stay connected. My structure styles are done with blocks that include linework for the inside face of the walls as well as the outside. (inside lines don't plot) This gives me something to use to end the pipes at the inside walls. Now, I am fully away at how tedious this it to do, which is why I only do it for very short pipes where a center to center pipe length is absurd. (like 12' of pipe between two 5' dia. structures, instead of the real 2') Also, moving a structure will make the pipe snap back to the moved structures center. The good part, is that as far as I know you don't have to make any other modifications to the way C3d labels or draws these pipes in plan or profile.

[Anonymous]

that does work. sorry for my bad attitude 🙂 you have never made an inane
suggestion McMcall.

--
Dana Breig Probert, E.I.T.
http://www.civil3d.com
----------------------------------
Register for the AUGI CAD Matinee in Philadelphia on May 17.

I'll be teaching: Using Civil 3D 2008 for Stormwater Management Tasks and A
Subdivision from Boundary to Plat with Civil 3D 2008

Visit http://www.cadmatinee.com/philadelphia/default.asp for more complete
agenda and registration.

wrote in message news:5549255@discussion.autodesk.com...
Chris,
I have an idea but I'm pretty sure it falls into the 'inane' category
and would be unworkable in a large scale design, however, on a small scale,
with a few structures and pipes, it might get you by until something better
comes along. C3D uses the pipe as it's drawn for standard pipe length and
slope calculation. It defaults to drawing the pipes to the center of the
structure, ... but you can physically grab the ends of the pipes and move
them to the side walls of the structure. As long as the pipe ends within the
limits of the structure it'll stay connected. My structure styles are done
with blocks that include linework for the inside face of the walls as well
as the outside. (inside lines don't plot) This gives me something to use to
end the pipes at the inside walls. Now, I am fully away at how tedious
this it to do, which is why I only do it for very short pipes where a center
to center pipe length is absurd. (like 12' of pipe between two 5' dia.
structures, instead of the real 2') Also, moving a structure will make the
pipe snap back to the moved structures center. The good part, is that as
far as I know you don't have to make any other modifications to the way C3d
labels or draws these pipes in plan or profile.

[Anonymous]

Bad attitude? I thought you were just trying out how the majority of the
folks here live. 🙂

You still have great ideas, even when you're down a bit. Rest assured, we
all like your company here no matter the current attitude.

Hope tomorrow is brighter for you.


"Dana Breig Probert" wrote in message
news:5549260@discussion.autodesk.com...
that does work. sorry for my bad attitude 🙂 you have never made an inane
suggestion McMcall.

--
Dana Breig Probert, E.I.T.
http://www.civil3d.com