Community
Civil 3D Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Civil 3D Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular AutoCAD Civil 3D topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

61 REPLIES 61
Reply
Message 1 of 62
jfalkowski
9468 Views, 61 Replies

PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

It still amazes me after all these years that one cannot simply rotate a profile view.  It has to be literally, the only Civil 3D object that cannot be rotated.  It can't possibly be that difficult to give us the option between UCS and View like a lot of other labels and objects.

 

It is so frustrating to have your design in one axis and your profiles stuck in World UCS.  I know you can create two model space views and twist the profile but if I wanted to work in a tiny little viewport I would switch back to my old17" monitor.  Btw, working through the viewport in paper space in not a viable option either, although I know Autodesk must love this.  I guess I could also export data out and XREF it back in to rotate it but that's a PITA too!

 

 

Jon

IDSP '15 SP3 / '16 SP2
Dell Mobile Precision 7720 - Core i7-7820HQ / Win 10 / 32GB Ram / SSD / Quadro M1200

61 REPLIES 61
Message 21 of 62
rkmcswain
in reply to: cadtech1986


@akirsch1986 wrote:

Thought I would put in my 2 cents ......


So I will also...

 

Going back to the days before C3D, LDT, Softdesk, Carlson, Eagle Point, to the point where the "profile view" was just a series of AutoCAD lines, I've never had the need to rotate a profile grid view. I'm not saying that it might not be useful to others somehow, but I've never needed it and don't now.

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 22 of 62
Jeff_M
in reply to: rkmcswain


@rkmcswain wrote:

@akirsch1986 wrote:

Thought I would put in my 2 cents ......


So I will also...

 

Going back to the days before C3D, LDT, Softdesk, Carlson, Eagle Point, to the point where the "profile view" was just a series of AutoCAD lines, I've never had the need to rotate a profile grid view. I'm not saying that it might not be useful to others somehow, but I've never needed it and don't now.


+1

I do most of my design work in a base file where all my alignments and profiles reside. There may be 30-50 ProfileViews, I can't even imagine them being rotated to match their respective alignments. After the Plan Production Manager cuts the sheets for me, I do all of my labeling in MS through a PS VP in those PP sheets, not the design file.

Jeff_M, also a frequent Swamper
EESignature
Message 23 of 62
sboon
in reply to: Jeff_M

Agree with Jeff.  By the time my design is complete there are no labels or text visible anywhere on the plan view, and I don't care what the profile view looks like since I'll create new ones in each of the sheet files.

 

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 24 of 62
jfalkowski
in reply to: sboon

Back in LDT days, we use to do our profiles in a separate drawing and then XREF them back into the working file (and rotate if necessary), since our plan sheets were typically n that file as well.  It didnt matter since all of the alignment and surface data was project folder based back then.  Now, I just don't feel like dealing with data shortcuts and whatnot, so most of it all resides in one drawing.  We typically only ever have one or two users working on the same project at the same time.

 

We always set our horizonal plane @ the beginning of the job depending on the layout or frontage streets, then twist model space accordingly.  It then stays that way for the remainder of the project.  We don't label everything with 3D labels so the manual labels need to be at the printed axis as well, and we do all of our labeling in model space.  This would seem like a PITA if model was in WCS but we were placing labels @ an angle.  It's just easier to work that way for us...I guess do whatever works best for you. 

 

Maybe some are misunderstanding...I'm not saying I wish each profile view was at the same angle as its corresponding alignment.  I just wish you could either set it's orientation to View, or just specify an angle manually so that everything in model space is on the same left/right plane after a twist is applied.  Since a profile is simply a view of referenced data that doesnt move, you would think this would be rather simple to do since various other display mediums give that option...

 

 

IDSP '15 SP3 / '16 SP2
Dell Mobile Precision 7720 - Core i7-7820HQ / Win 10 / 32GB Ram / SSD / Quadro M1200

Message 25 of 62
rkmcswain
in reply to: jfalkowski


@jfalkowski wrote:

Back in LDT days, we use to do our profiles in a separate drawing and then XREF them back into the working file ...

 

 


We did the same thing in LDT and continue to do the same thing in C3D. For comparison, my "Profile" drawing is a blank empty drawing, with the alignment, surface(s), and pipe networks dRef'ed in. The profile view and profiles are generated there. Then that drawing is xrefed into the P&P drawing, xcliped, then displayed through a viewport in the layout.

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 26 of 62
Cadguru42
in reply to: jfalkowski


@jfalkowski wrote:

Now, I just don't feel like dealing with data shortcuts and whatnot, so most of it all resides in one drawing.  We typically only ever have one or two users working on the same project at the same time.

 


The best practices management to using C3D is to use different drawings with data shortcuts or Vault. Back in C3D 2008 and earlier we used to put everything in the same drawing, but realized that it was slowing C3D down to the point where it was taking 20 seconds just to pan around the drawing, let alone work in it. Like you, we usually only have one person working on a project, but even then we changed to the way Autodesk wants the software to be used by using data shortcuts. We've got a survey drawing, a present layout drawing, a proposed layout drawing, an alignments & profiles drawing, an existing ground drawing, a corridor drawing, and a cross section drawing. Using XREFs and data shortcuts makes dealing with the software easy to work with and speeds everything up. Because the profiles are in the drawing with alignments, you don't have to worry about rotation of the profile view because the only thing in that drawing that's being plotted is the profile and everything stays in world coordinates. 

 

The basic premise is to keep each civil object type in its own drawing and use data shortcuts to share them to other drawings. That dramatically speeds up the software and makes it easier to manage for plan production versus modeling & design. We do this even on smaller projects where there might be just a 400' intersection widening because it just works so well. Your workflows might not be able to do something like this, but that's the way Autodesk has been designing C3D and it works pretty good if you follow it. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 27 of 62
jfalkowski
in reply to: Cadguru42

I hear ya and appreciate the response but not everything Autodesk recommends is advantageous to all users.  Take their supplied styes for example, we use approximately 5% of them out of the box, and the ribbons are cumbersome...but I digress. I applaud Autodesk for allowing users to still completely customize and tailor the software to meet our needs...rather than dictating how things must look and function.  You would not recognize the software if you fired it up on one of our machines.

 

That workflow may work well for some but sounds like a nightmare to me and completely unnecessary, especially for smaller projects.  If you keep your drawings cleaned, orgainzed, purged, etc...you should not have issues with slowness or lag.  I don't.  The largest file I have is probably 25 MB and that is for 100M+ projects of significant size and scope.  By the looks of that one drawing that was posted...I can completely understand how drawings get all buggered up and slow. 

 

Personally, I think that workflow would work best for projects that have multiple people working on them at the same time, in different locations..that was the whole premise behind vault right?  We don't use it and probably never will, but it has its applications.  We use data shortcuts very limited - mainly to dref the existing surface into our design drawing, leaving the base file unmolested.  I don't see the advantage of having alignments and pipe networks in separate drawings though.  Profile view, maybe but that is a lot of data to reference into one drawings just to keep them separated for the sake of separation.  It does solve the twist problem though..so maybe I'll look into it.

 

Thanks,

Jon

IDSP '15 SP3 / '16 SP2
Dell Mobile Precision 7720 - Core i7-7820HQ / Win 10 / 32GB Ram / SSD / Quadro M1200

Message 28 of 62
owenmull
in reply to: jfalkowski

Same as before.

 

Sorry, I completely disagree. 

 

You're completely free to disagree, however, all Im pointing out to you is that how you are going about it, is not how the software was designed to do it.

 

We always design in model space and we almost always orient the view based on the working design plane and what the drawings will be plotted at.  This is usually set in the beginning and does not change throughout the project.  We label all of our structures and pipes in model (numbers, grate el, inverts, sta., etc.).  If you labeled them all with model in WCS then how would you know what the final product would look like in the viewport after you rotate it?  Especially if you have the sheets generated automatically along the alignment.  Labels would be on top of each other because it holds the label insertion point and rotates referenced to that.  Unless all of your labels are perfect circles with a center insertion point...I'm not sure anyone could guess well enough.So do you label everything in model (no twist)...then create your viewport in paper space...then move all your labels around via working through the viewport so that labels are not all on top of each other?  How do you accomplish this if you generate your sheets automatically without looking at them first? 

 


The software cannot read your mind and divine what the final product needs to look like. Of course some label editing/tweaking is always necessery, and always will be, no matter how streamlined they (Autodesk) makes C3D. That's why you can edit the orientation reference of the label to be the object itself, view, or WCS. You can set it up so that no matter the rotation of objects in your viewport, labels always appear normally.

 

What if you have a roadway that makes a fairly circular loop? How do you set your ModelSpace Axis in that scenario? You would have to pick an axis, and then MANUALLY rotate the rest of your labels and/or objects that do not suit your Axis. Doing it this way completely defeats the software. That is the true inefficiency.

 

See the attachments.  Model with twist is the utility plan with all labels rotated to the view they will be plotted to and labels are placed so that everything is completely legible and do not overlap each other.  Model w/ no twist shows what happens when you rotate back to WCS.  So how do you label in WCS but have your labels where you need them once your viewport gets twisted?  Do you revise through the viewport or do you just guess where to place them and anticpate their location after rotation?  Seems counterproductive and highly inefficient to me. 

 

I label what I can while in MS, then once my sheets are generated, go and add labels, and organize them via PS the, yes. This is how the program functions best, and is designed for.

 

LATER POST

 

WOW, that looks terrible....haha.  How do you work like that?? IMO, Model space should be clean and organized without a bunch of jumbled labels on top of each other that you can't even read. 

 

This is why Autodesk created Annotation Scales. Use them. 

 

That is precisely the purpose of PaperSpace. ModelSpace is where all your designs go. They are organized in PS.

 

So what do you do when your consultants or agencies request CAD files?  Or files need to be sent to contractors for stakeout? Do you send them that cluttered mess of a drawing with **** everywhere and say "here, you figure it out, that's the way Autodesk intended it to be"  That would not fly my my clients...haha.

 

There's several ways to do that. You could use a layer filter to control what is displayed/not displayed. Freeze layers. Some save as a new drawing and strip what is irrelevent to the contractor. 

 

To each thier own.  You guys keep saying the way the software was intended or designed to be.  There have been so many additions since the birth of this software...just because the user can't do something now does not mean it was designed that way...

 

This statement makes no sense. You're saying that just because the software can't do it, doesn't mean it wasn't designed to do it?

 

Are there flaws with C3D? Absolutely, but going against how the software is designed, 99% of the time, is not the most efficient.

 

-Owen

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit

Civil 3D 2017
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Message 29 of 62
jfalkowski
in reply to: owenmull

C'mon Owen...Autodesk never intended engineers to work in model space through the viewport in PS.  Can you do it with maximize viewport, sure.  But you can also wipe before you poop.  Disagree if you want but I'm pretty sure that's not AutoCADs suggested workflow for designing.  To me and 99% of the engineering community, labels are part of the design and belong in model, at least for most objects. PS is not intended to organize your design, it's for plotting the design once completed. THAT's the way the software was designed.

 

You still don't aswer my questions though, just speak condescendingly to me about how the software was designed.  Keep reiterating, I might start believing you.  Or instead, just please move along - I'm not interested in your witty banter.

 

Annotation scales have nothing to do with why those labels are on top of each other.  It's because they are not at the desired rotation for viewing.  Try again.  Could you change annotation to 1"=5' so you could read them, sure...but why?  Could you freeze labels, sure...but why?  Maybe I want to read the sewer labels and the storm drain labels at the same time while "designing" in model?  Crazy thought, right? LOL  I guess you would suggest going to paper and modifying the design throught the viewport like "the software was designed". 

 

Also, I'm saying just because you can't do something NOW, does not mean you won't be able to in the future.  Many functions are included now that weren't 5 years ago.  Many which you will claim was how the software was "designed to be used".  Maybe you should clarify what year it was designed to be used since you know so much about the programmer's intentions.

 

Yeah...I'm going against 99% of the software *roll eyes*

 

 

IDSP '15 SP3 / '16 SP2
Dell Mobile Precision 7720 - Core i7-7820HQ / Win 10 / 32GB Ram / SSD / Quadro M1200

Message 30 of 62
Cadguru42
in reply to: jfalkowski


@jfalkowski wrote:

C'mon Owen...Autodesk never intended engineers to work in model space through the viewport in PS.  Can you do it with maximize viewport, sure.  But you can also wipe before you poop.  Disagree if you want but I'm pretty sure that's not AutoCADs suggested workflow for designing.  To me and 99% of the engineering community, labels are part of the design and belong in model, at least for most objects. PS is not intended to organize your design, it's for plotting the design once completed. THAT's the way the software was designed.

 

You still don't aswer my questions though, just speak condescendingly to me about how the software was designed.  Keep reiterating, I might start believing you.  Or instead, just please move along - I'm not interested in your witty banter.

 

Annotation scales have nothing to do with why those labels are on top of each other.  It's because they are not at the desired rotation for viewing.  Try again.  Could you change annotation to 1"=5' so you could read them, sure...but why?  Could you freeze labels, sure...but why?  Maybe I want to read the sewer labels and the storm drain labels at the same time while "designing" in model?  Crazy thought, right? LOL  I guess you would suggest going to paper and modifying the design throught the viewport like "the software was designed". 

 

Also, I'm saying just because you can't do something NOW, does not mean you won't be able to in the future.  Many functions are included now that weren't 5 years ago.  Many which you will claim was how the software was "designed to be used".  Maybe you should clarify what year it was designed to be used since you know so much about the programmer's intentions.

 

Yeah...I'm going against 99% of the software *roll eyes*

 

 


Why are you using final lables while designing? Most labels we use while designing are just for informational use and aren't used in the final plot. We don't even bother to label pipes and only number the structures while designing pipe networks because the data is in the pipe network itself. By placing almost all of the design in the same drawing you are going against the design intent of C3D. Labeling is supposed to be done through a viewport in paper space. That's the design intent. You don't design through a viewport, but you label it. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 31 of 62
jfalkowski
in reply to: Cadguru42

Well I'm not going to justify our way of doing it.  If you don't get it, then I won't change your mind by simply explaining the benefits of being able to look at a label to verify/check designs while designing.  Whether it's the final label or the temporary informational label, what difference does it make.  You still want to be able to read the labels without other labels on top of it.  Many firms do not show information about pipes/structures with a direct label, we do.  A lot of firms simply number the pipe or structure and then make you flip to another page to find it in a schedule.  To each thier own but a contractor or review agency can inarguably look at our plans and find the data he wants quicker, period.

 

See you fellas later...now I remember why I don't spend much time here.

IDSP '15 SP3 / '16 SP2
Dell Mobile Precision 7720 - Core i7-7820HQ / Win 10 / 32GB Ram / SSD / Quadro M1200

Message 32 of 62
rkmcswain
in reply to: jfalkowski


@jfalkowski wrote:

C'mon Owen...Autodesk never intended engineers to work in model space through the viewport in PS.   

 


Says who? It's not the only way, but what is so wrong with it?

 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 33 of 62
owenmull
in reply to: jfalkowski


@jfalkowski wrote:

C'mon Owen...Autodesk never intended engineers to work in model space through the viewport in PS.  Can you do it with maximize viewport, sure.  But you can also wipe before you poop.  Disagree if you want but I'm pretty sure that's not AutoCADs suggested workflow for designing.  To me and 99% of the engineering community, labels are part of the design and belong in model, at least for most objects. PS is not intended to organize your design, it's for plotting the design once completed. THAT's the way the software was designed.

 

Sorry. I wish I could agree with you, but you are simply incorrect. I wish you luck with your current workflow.

 

I never said to label in PS. I never said to design in PS. Please, rather than attack someone who is simply trying to help you gain a better understanding of C3D, read what I and others are trying to tell you. I'm sorry, but 99% of the community absolutely does not do it the way you describe. Everyone does it differently, with everyone deviating slightly, but for the experienced users, the general process is similar, in line with C3D. I apologize if you do not understand me.

 

You still don't aswer my questions though, just speak condescendingly to me about how the software was designed.  Keep reiterating, I might start believing you.  Or instead, just please move along - I'm not interested in your witty banter.

 

I must apologize if you find me hostile. I am simply attempting to help you understand how C3D works.

 

I fail to see how I was "witty" or "condescending" towards you, but I would offer the following advice:

 

When you come to a forum asking for help/complaining about a software feature, don't attack those only wishing to help you. 🙂

 

Annotation scales have nothing to do with why those labels are on top of each other.  It's because they are not at the desired rotation for viewing.  Try again.  Could you change annotation to 1"=5' so you could read them, sure...but why?  Could you freeze labels, sure...but why?  Maybe I want to read the sewer labels and the storm drain labels at the same time while "designing" in model?  Crazy thought, right? LOL  I guess you would suggest going to paper and modifying the design throught the viewport like "the software was designed". 

 

I already told you how to set your labels up to avoid the rotation issue. 

 

Also, I'm saying just because you can't do something NOW, does not mean you won't be able to in the future.  Many functions are included now that weren't 5 years ago.  Many which you will claim was how the software was "designed to be used".  Maybe you should clarify what year it was designed to be used since you know so much about the programmer's intentions.

 

 

Well, then at that future time, it would then become what the software was designed for, now wouldn't it?

 

 

Yeah...I'm going against 99% of the software *roll eyes*

 

 


Please re-examine yourself before you come attack me on a forum for making an effort out of my day to help you. I wish you luck with your project.

 

-Owen

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit

Civil 3D 2017
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Message 34 of 62
jfalkowski
in reply to: owenmull

I think you are way off base with your assessment of my experience.  May you know a few more tricks than me? Quite possibly, but save it for your blog.  Just because someone disagrees with you on a workflow process does not mean they are a novice user who doesnt understand the software. I appreciate your help and maybe I just took your helpful gesture the wrong way.

 

I'm not sure how you can be certain that 99% of "experienced users" do it differently than me.  Most people work in model.  Where and how they label is debatable.  I'm not saying one way is absolutely correct and the other is going against the software intent like you.  Some people prefer model...some paper. I guess I'm proud to be a 1%er! AutoCAD did not even have layout tabs at one point so if you want to go back to the roots, I would say intentions were to work in model. Us classic users probably prefer to stay working in model even if Autodesk changed their minds.  I still prefer menus and toolbars over the ribbon...so be it.  I still get jobs done efficiently and sucessfully and clients keep coming back, that's all that matters.

 

I think you came here to help initially but it quickly turned into "that's not how it works, you're wrong, you don't know anything about the software".  Certainly you can understand my defensive reaction.  Most people will not respond well to that sort of criticism, I'm no different.

 

 

Jon

IDSP '15 SP3 / '16 SP2
Dell Mobile Precision 7720 - Core i7-7820HQ / Win 10 / 32GB Ram / SSD / Quadro M1200

Message 35 of 62
owenmull
in reply to: jfalkowski

You know what, all I can tell you after that, is good luck.

 

I tried. Oh well, I suppose. Best of luck to you in the future.

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit

Civil 3D 2017
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Message 36 of 62
Cadguru42
in reply to: jfalkowski


@jfalkowski wrote:

Well I'm not going to justify our way of doing it.  If you don't get it, then I won't change your mind by simply explaining the benefits of being able to look at a label to verify/check designs while designing.  Whether it's the final label or the temporary informational label, what difference does it make.  You still want to be able to read the labels without other labels on top of it.  Many firms do not show information about pipes/structures with a direct label, we do.  A lot of firms simply number the pipe or structure and then make you flip to another page to find it in a schedule.  To each thier own but a contractor or review agency can inarguably look at our plans and find the data he wants quicker, period.

 

See you fellas later...now I remember why I don't spend much time here.


We're not trying to attack you, but help you. I can read any labels in model space that I need to read because the other labels are on layers that are frozen. Layer management keeps it easy to work in model space. The screenshots I showed you are from a project I had already done a while ago. The model space looks messy, but I was already done with all the design and linework. I went into each layout's VP and added labels. Since the pavement markings aren't needed in the proposed layout drawings, they weren't on so when I was labeling them the curb labels and such weren't in the way. In the pavement marking plan VP the curb labels aren't turned on so they aren't interfering with the pavement marking labels. Sure, the model space looks strange after all the labels are done, but if I need to work in the model space I just freeze the labels that are in my way. Is there an easier way to do this? I'm sure there is, but I haven't seen or heard of one yet. 

 

I work for a local government; we are the review agency as well as the designer of a lot of projects. We try to meet our state's DOT standards as close as possible, so they're going to be much more restrictive and specific compared to private subdivision plans. For instance, TDOT requires that the proposed layouts are only to show proposed curbs, EOTs, etc. The only existing features to be shown are where there are tie-ins from proposed features into existing features. That's it. No utilities, buildings, existing curbs that inside the project, no contours (existing or proposed) etc. are to be shown. While designing we make design layouts that show all the existing features with the proposed design overlayed for design purposes. Makes it easier to see if a water valve will have to move or if a sanitary line is in the way of a new storm inlet. But the final proposed layout sheets don't show that kind of thing. 

 

I do a lot of 3d work using 3ds Max. You'd probably hate having to work with 3d models because of how often you'd have to isolate objects just to work with them, but I'm used to having to isolate and freeze layers/objects to get a design/model drawn. Some people don't like that and want to see everything at all times while working. To each his own. But realize that you're fighting against the way the software is designed to work if you place everything in a single drawing and rotate model space instead of viewports. It's not that it won't work, but you'll run into issues such as you did about not being able to rotate a profile view. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 37 of 62
jmayo-EE
in reply to: jfalkowski

If many users rotated profile views on a regular bases they would have been screaming to Autodesk and the feature would have been included. As you stated many new feature have been added when requests have been made or many users complain but you incorrectly assume the program was 'made' to work with all of these additional features. Not so. They brought over many tools from LDD like 2D Pline to 3DPline that have nothing to do with a C3D workflow just to keep folks happy. 

 

You have a lot of experienced users on this forum and you are the first I can recall asking for this feature since 2006 when I started trolling hereSom maybe this is why it's not in the app now. Like the others who have posted to this thread I have not had any benefit or use to rotating a profile view in C3D. It would in the end waste too much of my time trying to get the program to do something it does not want to do so I changed my workflows from the LDD methods to the C3D methods to work with the grain.

 

We (and many others here) have had a very similar experiences with other C3D features like C3D points vs LDD points and the old need to have one layer for #, one for Desc and one for Elv. After all LDD did it why doesn't C3D? Because once you learn how to use C3D points correctly you find that that need for those layers is useless and just creates more work, more data to manage and sucks up more of the projects budgeted time.

 

 

John Mayo

EESignature

Message 38 of 62
Joe-Bouza
in reply to: jmayo-EE

"This isn't Kansas anymore..."
In the early days the mantra was "forget everything you know about LDT"... You hardly hear that anymore

Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People)

HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win10 OS
Message 39 of 62
Grimes_MG
in reply to: Joe-Bouza

Give me a break. If Jon wants his profile view rotated than by golly he should be able to rotate is profile view. I absolution agree that the grid is the table that the objects get placed on- rotate way! If I want it upsidedown and backwards then the software should let me- I'm the engineer whose stamp is on the plans.

 

Next time, just write "Jon there isn't a way to rotate your PV" and be done with it. Jon can then formally request the feature in 2015 release, or 2016 or 2017.....I've been wanting for years the feature where a Pipe Label actually provides an invert label of a crossing pipe at the point of intersection with the alignment in the PV. Has that been added and I didn't read about it?

Win7 (x64), EVGA 790i, 8GB RAM, EVGA 8800GT, 250 GB iSSHDD, & RAID 0/1
Message 40 of 62
Joe-Bouza
in reply to: Grimes_MG

I guess?

But god and autodesk made viewports for a reason. <G>
Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People)

HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win10 OS

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Rail Community


Autodesk Design & Make Report