Multileaders in Dview Twisted Viewport - rotation problem

[zootango]

When I create a viewport of my model, and go into my viewport and do a Dview Twist of say 90 degrees, when I use the multileader command while I'm inside the viewport my leaders and text come in vertical instead of horizontal.

How do you get your multileaders to come in horizontal when your leadering inside a dview twisted viewport???

[csevers]

Won't that mess up all of your tables? I think that will affect your coordinates.

[coopdavillage]

I find it interesting that every has such and issue with changing the UCS. There are times when you need to change a UCS however you have to remember to change it back. Its really not that big of a deal.

As for labels, i have come across many civil 3d labels that do not work with dview twist. To counter that you set each viewport to a different UCS. Doing this does not affect your model space UCS at all and all of the labels work.

Its a general rule that you never insert something into a drawing through the viewport anyways (or it should be).

[pmascaro]

Yeah.... but, "remember to change it back" <- Therein lies the problem. If somebody forgets to do this (it happens often) your coordinate system is shot… Then if somebody does not QC the coordinate system before exporting points or sharing data you're in serious trouble (also happens).

It would be nice if there was a system variable that could be set to automatically set model space back to world coordinates on open or close. Scripting this variable could potentially solve the UCS issue… (Yes… I’ve seen some ad hock scripts where you have to name a view equal to world… I mean a real solution… Not a work around…)

Either that, or Autodesk should just make everything compatible with DView Ttwist including said Civil 3D object rotations that do not rotate properly...

(upside down contour labels do make me a little irritated too...)

I still do not understand why, in industry's where the accuracy of coordinates are vital to projects, the application still has such limited compatibility with rotated views…

(civil engineering, environmental engineering, geospatial mapping and collaboration, geotechnical, etc….)

[Cadguru42]

For ten years we've been using a rotated UCS in viewports, but leaving the model space UCS alone. It has never caused any problems with points or labels. Most MLeaders could be replaced with C3D Note labels, which can orient to the view.

[coopdavillage]

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pmascaro wrote:

Yeah.... but, "remember to change it back" <- Therein lies the problem. If somebody forgets to do this (it happens often) your coordinate system is shot… Then if somebody does not QC the coordinate system before exporting points or sharing data you're in serious trouble (also happens).

You might be able to counter some of the forgetting with a toolbar that has buttons setup exactly for doing just that. That is what i have done at my company and it appears to be working. I have one setup for a New UCS that all they have to do it click from left to right along an object they want to be at the bottom and then hit the Plan button. When they want to go back they hit the World and then the Plan button again. The most important thing is instructing the techs on the proper way to do it and that they need to remember to change it back. 

However changing the UCS in a drawing is a standard thing. DVIEW is meant for perspective or 3D viewing which has never been needed in the fields i have worked in. I have been doing UCS for years and have come across people that had problems remembering to change it back, they didnt last very long.

There may someday be a change from Autodesk but I wouldnt stop working for it to come out. They still havent fixed my profiles that they screwed up in 2009. But then i guess its hard to fix something you didnt even know your program could do 😉

[sar.clara]

Can also edit rotation in properties, has worked for me and saves me from rotating co-ordinate system... which may be a quick fix for the angle of leader....but can lead to BIG headaches down the road..

[tguytonY5GGD]

Can have the multileader drawn in model horizontal, when screen is twisted, without changing the UCS?

[pmascaro]

I gave up on a fix for this. I've contracted a programing developer to write a WCS reset for my CAD Technicians. This will happen silently when you open your drawing. They will have the option to turn it off if they have to work in 3D views, but when it's on, it will reset model from a rotated UCS to WCS.

[toyhonda86]

I tend to draw my multileaders in paperspace and then change space to place it within the viewport.  Works well for me even though it is an extra step.

[tguytonY5GGD]

The mutlileader I’m trying to use is coordinately sensitive and works and looks great in model space when screen isn’t twisted. Works well when twisted but won't look right on plan.  Changing UCS doesn’t work with what I’m doing and I want to keep world coordinates as well. Obviously the developers don't understand or appreciate the difficulty here. 

[markatwsp]

Agreed. I too work entirely in C3D. Going back to the WORLD UCS is as easy as entering UCS at the command line, with two taps of the "enter" key (since the default is WORLD). I've had to work this way for decades, so I'm quite used to it. 

I agree with the comment about the multileaders working with the VIEW........maybe one day we will see that happen, but in the meantime, it's not a big deal for me.   

As far as copying a multileader from one view to another (with differing UCS), I do the UCS, V to rotate my UCS and do my multileaders. Then if I want to copy the multileader to a different viewport (with a totally different UCS), I just copy the multileader (EDIT, COPY WITH BASE POINT). Then I go into the next viewport, do the UCS, V in the next viewport, and then do a PASTE.....and the copied multileader is placed at that UCS and is also correct (horizontal) in the viewport. Works like a charm and is especially helpful with repetitious dimensions and multileaders from viewport to viewport. We recently had this scenario across 100+ plan sheets/layouts and it was actually a helpful technique to use. 

[markatwsp]

Play with UCSFOLLOW. Try it set to ZERO. 

[EDTROUT]

Doesn't UCS Follow change the coordinates? That would defeat the whole purpose of using twist.

[markatwsp]

When moving between UCS's (WORLD or any made up UCS), your view will rotate with the UCS that is current when UCSFOLLOW is set to 1. Set UCSFOLLOW to ZERO and your view won't change (follow) when you change your current UCS.

Once I have my VIEW horizontal, I personally want to keep it that way. If UCSFOLLOW is at ZERO, I can then switch back to WORLD UCS and my view (rotation) doesn't change on me. It's what you like. Personally, if the UCSFOLLOW is set to 1, your view will change (follow) to whatever UCS you have current.

Your coords will obviously only be correct when you are in WORLD UCS, however your view can be rotated. Observe your crosshairs.  It takes a while to get comfortable working that way. Use the UC command to bring up the UCS window, then select the Named UCSs tab if you want to verify your current UCS. Good luck, but be careful. Leaving a file that's not in the WORLD UCS can be dangerous, especially if coworkers open the file and assume it's in WORLD when it may not be. The best scenario is Autodesk figuring out a way to do multileaders automatically aligned with the viewports/views. Hope this helped.

Also have a look at the PLAN command.

[EDTROUT]

Yeah, we never recommend giving drafters the chance to screw up project coordinates.. That's why we always prefer to use DVIEW - twist option.

[JMG2A]

I'm sorry but it's just absurd to need to mess with the UCS in a Civil Engineering model to get a leader to do something that label leaders have been able to do for years and years. The practice is prohibited here and should be at any serious Civil firm. It's not about "there only being one way", it's about.. "rotating the UCS opens up your project and your firm to unnecessary risk". 

[markatwsp]

JMG2A,
I'm an old dog and I'm not sure what you are referring to by "label leaders". We are typically using multileaders, which we place in model space calling out the work we are doing (in our reference files). Please, point me to these Label Leaders. Perhaps something better has been introduced in more recent versions of Autocad that may prove very helpful. I DO understand the issues that may arise with UCS's.
Thanks.

[wweathers]

I am a Civil Engineer and Land Surveyor and I also think it is ridiculous the multi leaders do not have an option to automatically rotate to the view port. I do not think it is a good idea to rotate the UCS just to make a label look correct. Everything else in Civil has the option to rotate to view, why not multi leaders. I do not twist or rotate model space. I use north arrow to rotate the viewport. I would use the General Note Label more often, but it more complicated having to make sure to change the object layer in settings if you want certain notes to show up certain sheets. Plus you cannot add additional leaders like a multi leader and editing the text is a little harder with a Note. Plus i prefer how a multileader moves around better than a NOTE, where the leader stays in one place while the text is re positioned. I could use MTEXT that automatically rotates, but then a do not have the leader to point to something. I am not going back to QLEADER.

It is not that big of a deal on a small project with a few sheets and one view rotation, but it is an issue on large linear projects that are multiple miles longer. I use the automatic viewport and sheet generation tools in CAD to create all the sheets i need, centered along an alignment, and rotated so the center line is horizontal across the sheet.

Autodesk need to fix multileaders.

[EDTROUT]

I wouldn't hold my breath! This is an old issue as it is needed and still hasn't been addressed. 

[JMG2A]

Thanks for reply. So when I say "label leaders" that's not really an official term. Basically any auto-generated annotation like a pipe segment label, storm structure label. point label styles, etc. They all have the ability to automatically rotate to the view, so it's insane to me that a normal mleader can't do this.