I don't know the statute you refer to specifically. But most states have something similar. For the most part what they are referring to are the original field notes. In the age of Data Colletors that's why it's important NOT to edit the .RAW file. The original .RAW file should be preserved as evidence of what was done in the field.
As to TOPO. I learned to contour by hand about a quarter century ago. One of the most important things that the Surveyor who taught me this told me is "All contours are lies!". Whether done by hand or in a software program you have to field shots X distance apart. The draftsman or software assumes that there is a constant grade between those 2 points. That's never going to be the case unless you're shooting a sloped steel beam of something.
In the field the topo shots can verry too. On ground the tip of the rod can sink in soft soil. Even those crews that are careful about rod heights may be off a hundredth or two and I've seen crews who weren't very careful. And I've gotten rods directly from the factory that were incorrectly calibrated. So most contours represent a best guess.
But you asked about legally. As I said I believe the law are referring to the original field notes. But once you're in Court the Judge might interpret it anyway they feel fit. I once read about a case where a Judge decided in favor of one Surveyors work over anthers on the basis that the one Surveyor 'Followed in the original Surveyors footsteps". In that Judges eyes that meant that the guy who testified that they had cut along the boundary with machetes using transit and tape had fulfilled that requirement while the Surveyor who had used a random traverse using a total station had not. I think that "Following in the footsteps" more accurately means looking for and locating the evidence found and set by the original Surveyor. So once in Court you cannot rely on what interpretation may be put on a law. Makes it a lot of fun.
BTW. I'm currently waiting for the results of a case where my research took me back to Colonial Law and to Surveys done in the early part of the last century. I think we have everything nailed down. but you never know!
Allen
Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<AllenJessup> wrote in message
href="news:6139269@discussion.autodesk.com">news:6139269@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't know the statute you refer to specifically. But most states
have something similar. For the most part what they are referring to are the
original field notes. In the age of Data Colletors that's why it's important
NOT to edit the .RAW file. The original .RAW file should be preserved as
evidence of what was done in the field.
As to TOPO. I learned to contour by hand about a quarter century ago.
One of the most important things that the Surveyor who taught me this told me
is "All contours are lies!". Whether done by hand or in a software program you
have to field shots X distance apart. The draftsman or software assumes that
there is a constant grade between those 2 points. That's never going to be the
case unless you're shooting a sloped steel beam of something.
In the field the topo shots can verry too. On ground the tip of the rod
can sink in soft soil. Even those crews that are careful about rod heights may
be off a hundredth or two and I've seen crews who weren't very careful. And
I've gotten rods directly from the factory that were incorrectly calibrated.
So most contours represent a best guess.
But you asked about legally. As I said I believe the law are referring
to the original field notes. But once you're in Court the Judge might
interpret it anyway they feel fit. I once read about a case where a Judge
decided in favor of one Surveyors work over anthers on the basis that the one
Surveyor 'Followed in the original Surveyors footsteps". In that Judges eyes
that meant that the guy who testified that they had cut along the boundary
with machetes using transit and tape had fulfilled that requirement while the
Surveyor who had used a random traverse using a total station had not. I think
that "Following in the footsteps" more accurately means looking for and
locating the evidence found and set by the original Surveyor. So once in Court
you cannot rely on what interpretation may be put on a law. Makes it a lot of
fun.
BTW. I'm currently waiting for the results of a case where my
research took me back to Colonial Law and to Surveys done in the early part of
the last century. I think we have everything nailed down. but you never
know!
Allen
Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager
Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager
#
ennifer Widom's Home Page
Stanford University - Databases: semistructured data and XML, data
warehousing and heterogeneous database integration, active database
systems, ...
infolab.stanford.edu/~widom/ - 16k - Cached - Similar pages
#
Jennifer Widom's Publications
J.D. Ullman and J. Widom. A First Course in Database Systems. Prentice
Hall, Upper Saddle River, New Jersey, first edition 1997, second edition
2002, ...
infolab.stanford.edu/~widom/pubs.html - 67k - Cached - Similar pages
#
The Widom Lab, BMBCB, Northwestern University
13 Jul 2006 ... widom lab. Home · lab members · about us · publications
· photo album · more info · contact. blank Home · lab members · about is ...
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pages
#
Harold Widom's Home Page
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operator theory, in particular the determination of the spectra of
semi-infinite ...
count.ucsc.edu/~widom/widom.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
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The Widom Family Home Page
Back in 1998 my husband gave me the unusual birthday gift of a domain
name, widom.com. So now I'm the unofficial caretaker of a Widom Family
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Benjamin Widom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Benjamin Widom is the Goldwin Smith Professor of Chemistry at Cornell
University. His research interests include physical chemistry and
statistical ...
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DBLP: Jennifer Widom
Jennifer Widom. List of publications from the DBLP Bibliography Server -
FAQ ..... 18, Jennifer Widom: Deductive and Active Databases: Two
Paradigms or Ends ...
www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/db/indices/a-tree/w/Widom:Jennifer.html
- 134k - Cached - Similar pages
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Widom Homepage
A brief description of the research of Michael Widom.
www.phys.cmu.edu/people/faculty/Widom/ - 17k - Cached - Similar pages
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Kolomeisky, A.B. and Widom, B. A Simplified 'Ratchet' Model of Molecular
Motors. ... Lekkerkerker, H.N.W.; Widom, B. An Exactly Solvable Model
for Depletion ...
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On-line Gallery featuring the artwork and illustrations of Bryce Widom.
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Book results for widom
Active Database Systems: Triggers and Rules ... - by Jennifer Widom,
Stefano Ceri - 354 pages
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356 pages
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A Dienstbier, ... - 304 pages
None of it seems particularly relevant to the OP's query 🙂
Let me say I'm amazed at the blind reliance on Lidar data as being the
"most accurate" by a couple of the posters here.
It is impossible to build a reasonable model of real world surfaces
without breaklines which Lidar data cannot document.
Even in the irrigation surveys of very flat natural landforms (typically
done here on a 25m to 50m grid), there are always a few items which
require breaklines for accurate representation.
To address the original question, I don't have knowledge of specific
legislation, but certainly the laws of consumer protection would apply
here. Adjustments to surface models made in the office on the grounds
of "contour appearance" in the absence of field information to support
it would not be defendable.
Regards,
Laurie Comerford
C3D_RickGraham wrote:
> Thanks all for you rcontributions (so far - I'm awaiting for the other
> side of the world to wake so I can hear some widom from a certain guy! 🙂
>
>
>
> My real problem is that I think our survey department takes too many
> 'liberties' with contours. All because the field crew didn't get enough
> shots so CAD just tries its best to interpolate these and more times
> than naught is wrong. So then we have the survey tech (who hasn't been
> out in the field and perhaps looks at pictures, and then again perhaps
> not) make those decisions.
>
>
>
> I was trying to think of a way to impress upon the Survey department
> head the importance of getting more shots - especially if they are using
> GPS. It is my humble opinion that too many shots is way better than not
> enough shots. We can weed out the ones we want to include via the point
> groups. With too little shots, then we get the weird contours which
> obviously don't look like that out in the field.
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> PS - I also love that saying and I'm posting it on my board too! 🙂
The practice of the profession of engineering is defined as performing professional service such as consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning, design or supervision of construction or operation in connection with any utilities, structures, buildings, machines, equipment, processes, works, or projects wherein the safeguarding of life, health and property is concerned, when such service or work requires the application of engineering principles and data.
§7203. Definition of practice of land surveying.
The practice of the profession of land surveying is defined as practicing that branch of the engineering profession and applied mathematics which includes the measuring and plotting of the dimensions and areas of any portion of the earth, including all naturally placed and man- or machine-made structures and objects thereon, the lengths and directions of boundary lines, the contour of the surface and the application of rules and regulations in accordance with local requirements incidental to subdivisions for the correct determination, description, conveying and recording thereof or for the establishment or reestablishment thereof.
§7208. Exempt persons.
This article shall not be construed to affect or prevent the following, provided that no title, sign, card or device shall be used in such manner as to tend to convey the impression that the person rendering such service is a professional engineer or a land surveyor licensed in this state or is practicing engineering or land surveying
e. Making of surveys by professional engineers, except that the determination of real property boundaries may be done only by a licensed land surveyor;
So the answer is: You can't do any Surveying (which includes plotting) unless you're a licensed Surveyor but Engineers can do surveys but can't determine boundaries.
Allen
Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager
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<AllenJessup> wrote in messageFrom
href="news:6139750@discussion.autodesk.com">news:6139750@discussion.autodesk.com...
NYS Education Law: (My Bolding)
§7201. Definition of
practice of engineering.
The practice of the profession of engineering is defined as performing
professional service such as consultation, investigation, evaluation,
planning, design or supervision of construction or operation in connection
with any utilities, structures, buildings, machines, equipment, processes,
works, or projects wherein the safeguarding of life, health and property is
concerned, when such service or work requires the application of engineering
principles and data.
§7203. Definition of practice of land surveying.
The practice of the profession of land surveying is defined as
practicing that branch of the engineering profession and applied mathematics
which includes the measuring and plotting of the dimensions and areas
of any portion of the earth, including all naturally placed and man-
or machine-made structures and objects thereon, the lengths and directions of
boundary lines, the contour of the surface and the application of rules and
regulations in accordance with local requirements incidental to subdivisions
for the correct determination, description, conveying and recording thereof or
for the establishment or reestablishment thereof.
§7208. Exempt
persons.
This article shall not be construed to affect or prevent the following,
provided that no title, sign, card or device shall be used in such manner as
to tend to convey the impression that the person rendering such service is a
professional engineer or a land surveyor licensed in this state or is
practicing engineering or land surveying
e. Making of surveys by
professional engineers, except that the determination of real property
boundaries may be done only by a licensed land surveyor;
So
the answer is: You can't do any Surveying (which includes plotting) unless
you're a licensed Surveyor but Engineers can do surveys but can't determine
boundaries.
Allen
Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">If
the field work, reduction, plotting, tinning and tin edits were all done
within the same company I can't see there being any problems. The sticky part
comes in when a DTM done in a Surveyors office is edited by an Engineer, or
someone working under the direction of that Engineer, in another office. At
that point who becomes liable for any error (or perceived
error)?
Allen