Land Desktop 2008 project to Civil 3D

[MaryBell1]

I am just new with this company. My first task is to get them up and running on C3D 2014. There is a project that was started a few years ago, most of the engineering that was done was in LDD 2008 or 2009, it was put on hold for a couple years and now has resurfaced and they are ready to continue with the next few phases. If I brought it into C3D what could I expect. From what I know at this point, C3D works dynamically, I'm assuming I would not get that functionality, I would think all my surfaces would come across, I might have some issues with linework, symbols, layering (I'm creating standards for them as well) and have all the new layers in the new template. I'm sure this is easier than I envision at this point but I'm so new to C3d that its not quick clear yet... any suggestions or information is appreciated.

[awood]

First step would be to get a working template for Civil 3D. There is an Import Data from Land Desktop command to get the data and AutoCAD entities will open just fine.

Also here's a good article on the subject

http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article.aspx?i=71355

Hope that helps a little

AWood

[MaryBell1]

Thanks, I actually read that article the other day and it's a good one. Although I don't think it quite addresses my question. I'm already sold on the benefits of switching over the Civil 3D. I guess I was hoping for a response from someone who has a similiar project and their experience or advice when switching over. I did previously use your suggestion for import/LDD but I believe I only used that feature for a description keys. This project is a large sub division and complete plan sets have been created and upcoming is another phase and/or revisions to the existion design. The engineering is not sold on switching the project over quite yet since we are not sure what to expect and how it will affect the drawings that are already nearly done through LDD. Am I over thinking it or is it more seamless than I envision.

[Joe-Bouza]

The line work / acad enties would not have any issues.
surface conversion is one thing being linked to alignments and profiles another. Word use to be started in LDT finish in LDT, but depending on the scope it may be easier to recreat in c3d

[mathewkol]

I don't want to be this blunt, but you're going to have problems! You mention you are new to C3D; converting a project from LDT to C3D can be challenging for a senior user.

Data from LDT that comes in fine are surfaces, alignments, and profiles. Sections do not convert. Templates don't convert. You will likely have to relabel everything.

All this depends on the nature of the project, you may have fewer problems that I'm suggesting. However, many similar projects I've seen such as this have been rocky. Someone with lots of Civil 3dD experience would be a huge help.

Consider hirring a competent pro who can help you through this.

[AllenJessup · Accepted solution]

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@MaryBell1 wrote:

C3D works dynamically, I'm assuming I would not get that functionality,

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I brought up projects from much further back than that. While the conversion of LDT objects is possible through the commands already mentioned. I've found that if you want the full dynamic capability of C3D. It's best to only bring in points and the Alignments if they're complicated to recreate. Copy/Paste works fine for dumb linework and text. The one thing you don't want to do is to open the LDT drawing and try to work in it.

I recreate the Surfaces because Civil 3D does a much better job with Surfaces than LDT. Plus that will give you a dynamic link to the points. Hopefully you have breaklines or 3D Polylines in LDT that you can use to create the breaklines in Civil.

You're real challenge is going to be to learn how to create Surfaces, Assemblies and Corridors. As mentioned. Make sure you start from at least an OOTB template.

Allen

[Pointdump]

MaryBell1,

I second Allen's suggestions. His is the path of least grief.

Dave

[MaryBell1]

Thanks Matt, I am fully aware of my challenges, converting a project is actually for the future. I am at this stage trying to get started with survey code file, description keys and points styles. I am thankful for 'expert elites' such as yourself to give me some guidance. Stay tuned.... more questions coming!

Mary

[bcsurvey]

Mary,

     I've been using C3D for about 3 and a half years and out of 3 survey drafters in my department, I'm the only one using it fulltime.  I dumped the 2009 companion years ago and didn't look back.  BUT, my coworkers refused to, and it is for this reason that they still have it on their machines.   They are considerably behind the curve, and I try to get a few minutes with them when I can to do some training to start moving them over.  Among the survey industry, it seems that the era of LDD is not tapering the way Autodesk would have liked.  This is mainly because the survey tools in C3D are and have been atrocious (I've developed some work-arounds).  There are add-ons that can help, but these shouldn't be necessary for what we pay for C3D.  I only say this since you mentioned having to get up to speed with survey codes, desc. keys, etc.

     You've likely already come across this.  It might be useful for you, though I'm not sure that it can be used for C3D 2013 upward:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D-General/import-point-groups-from-LDD-07-into-C3D-2010...

If it works, use this for any LDT project you'd like to convert to C3D (at least for the point groups).

Good luck, and have fun with it!

[MaryBell1]

Allen... oh where do i begin? First of all, thanks for the straight forward advice, I'm at the mercy of experts such as yourself and I really do appreciate the time you and the others take to respond to us newbies! I'm' looking forward to the day when I can look back at these questions of mine and giggle and remember how clueless I WAS.

I was given the actual project today and before I migrate to Civil 3D I wanted to see if you had any other suggestions. Like I said it was started in LDT 2008 and it's a fairly small project. I have come to realize I have more challenges than just the migration. This company has a survey crew but they want nothing to do with any standards or learning new point codes or generating drawings that can be used by design. Soooo I'm faced with manually modifying their point file as best I can to make it useable for my needs. I've spent the last couple weeks recreating their point file, creating a Desc Key set and point/label styles.... it works for the most part, I'm still learning the nuances and I will tweak it as I go. I am trying to wrap my head around what will happen when I bring in the LDT project. I am probaly not going to want the original point file, and I'll recreate the surface. It's a pretty basic plan at this point, surface, alignment, 9 lots, utilities, linework, text..etc. My plan is to basically start it from scratch and copy and paste any text or linework over. I'd like to be able to recreate the lotsas closely as possible which are just lines in the original. Am I on the right track??

Another issue I'm having is with the Desc Key, I have a template drawing where my desc key is mostly complete but as I go I am adding and modifying it, the problem is it's only updating in the drawing i'm in or if I change it in the template drawing it doesn't 'update' to my current one. I would expect it to act like a 'master' key file. I have tried drag n drop but it does't work. Am I missing something on this incredibly important file?

OH and just another bit o information, they, don't really have any standards so I'm creating them as I go, they don't like to use x-refs so any base maps are in with the drawing itself and they make layers on the fly as needed.... I don't expect an answer I just wanted someone to feel my pain, with that said I cannot tell you how grateful I am for the work!

[mathewkol]

Although in some circumstances it may be nice to have a "master" file, there currently is no such thing. So when you update your template, there is no connection to any other file. Dragging and dropping works wonderfully, maybe you're doing something wrong. You drag the styles from the settings tab and drop them into the drawing window, not into the settings tree of the destination file.

Regarding the survey crew, if there are good reasons for them to change their workflow, this is something management is going to have to mandate. They will need to buy in fully if they are going to come down on the surveyors. Most times they don't really need to change much however. I'm a little confused over this comment of yours,"...generating drawings that can be used by design...."

[AllenJessup]

Hi Mary,

It looks like your are on the right track. Recreating the Parcels from the original linework should work fine. As far a the Description Keys go. Without a 3rd party program (I use Sincpac). There isn't any way to transfer the Desc. Keys from one drawing to another. What you might try is to add them to your Template, create a new drawing from that Template and insert your current drawing in to that new drawing. That should give you a drawing with updated Keys.

The one thing you might want to reexamine as you go along is the use of Xrefs. As you advance in the use of Civil 3D and work on larger projects. The use of Xrefs and Drefs (Data References) becomes critical. A small Subdivision with a couple off lots isn't too bad. But if you are doing a large one or a few miles of road. You will need to break up the project.

I'm working on a very small project now. But just out of habit I have a base map with the existing Surface, an Alignment and Profile drawing, a X-Section drawing and a Design drawing. The basemap is Xrefed into the Design drawing and the Alignment and Surface are Drefed. I I decide I need a Corridor. There may be either be another drawing for that.

Post back when you need more help and have a Happy Holiday.

Allen

[mathewkol]

Allen, Desc Keys are easily transferred from one DWG into another without any 3rd party app. I just did it.

Mary, what Allen says about referencing is entirely true, your users simply need to change. I've never understood why some people are afraid of XREF's. Have they given you any reasons?

[AllenJessup]

I guess I've been using Sincpac for so long that I hadn't realized it. Thanks for pointing that out.

Allen

[MaryBell1]

OH all I meant by that was it would be nice if the symbols and linetypes
and layers were all standard and that there was a good base drawing to hand
over to engineering. And I can't really apply a linework codes set because
of the way in which they collect their data, not willing to rename codes or
add special linework codes....so I've come to only focus on the engineering
end when I'm creating styles and the desc key. Its ok, we can work around
them its just surprising to me that they are not more cohesive since they
are one company. I might be wrong but why do I then even need a description
key? As far as I can tell its only purpose is to translate the survey data
but in my case they don't really want to deal with it..... hmmm? I could
just work with the point files... am I missing something?

I have tried dragging and dropping the desc key into the drawing window but
when I open it its not the new one, and I'm not sure what you mean by 'You
drag the styles from the settings tab '?

[mathewkol]

Here is a video on how to drag and drop styles.  There is no sound.

https://chronicle.autodesk.com/Main/Details/f6979fca-4042-4de8-bff7-e412fdd8c564

Regarding your question about why one would need description keys, they are for severe things:

• Apply symbols automatically based on the surveyor's codes.
• Scale those symbols based on the surveyor's codes.
• Place the points on layers based on the cods.
• Change the raw codes to full codes (some surveyors use "45" for edge of pavement, some use "ep".  The full description could be "Edge of Pavement".

[bcsurvey]

I look at a point import process as follow:

-Desc. keys will assign a "Point" (icon, block, etc.) at location specified in point file, a "Point Label Style" being whatever combination of attributes existing for that point from the point file based on what the Point Label style settings are (you can get very elaborate with adding attributes into a custom point file format), a "Layer", and any of several other options such as rotation, scaling, etc.  Note that the Full Description process for each key is assigned in the Desc. Key table ($*, $0, $1, etc.).  If you're not familiar with how these, work, it would be well worth your time, especially if you're trying to get management to push this new and better system of coding.  Also, for future reference, you can uncheck particular aspects of what the Desc. keys will be assigning to points.  These will allow Point Groups or default settings (in that order, unless defaults are set to override child settings) to define these properties.

-Point Groups come into play after the above.  These may be defined to look for any particular string of characters anywhere in the point code, as well as other ways  (whereas Desc. Keys look at the immediate beginning of the code as a starting point).  With regards to points that are included in several point groups, the one that is highest up (right-click Point Groups > Properties) will be the one that describes what Point Style and Point Label Style are assigned to the point.  There are options to override the Desc. Keys with the Point Group settings, as well as lock the Point Group.

-Default settings need to be something you'll recognize easily as such so that you're not hunting through various settings trying to decide why something is set the way it is.  This way, you'll know that neither the Desc. Keys nor the Point Groups are defining the styles.

-Linework . . . (sigh) . . . it will be difficult at first to get the crews to start using this.  A good place to start is with closed polygons, such as drop inlets, isolated concrete pads, buildings, etc.  Once they've gotten this under their belt, they're confidence and willingness to learn more will motivate them to start creating coding for simple lines, ideally ones with curves, that have separate begin and end points.  Lastly, and if an appropriate project presents itself, challenge them further by having them code multiple lines (route survey, right of way survey, etc.) using the skills they've already learned.  The down side of this is that ultimately, they're taking the same number of shot (curb dimensioning and such notwithstanding) but YOUR workload will decrease.  As long as they see it as a team effort and are recognized for the overall increase in efficiency, it's a win-win.

Allen mentions the SincPac.  I don't use this but have seen some screenshots of survey functionality that just isn't found in C3D.  With others raving about it on this forum, I may explore it more in the future.  I was saddened to hear that the author of the software recently died.  But what a legacy to leave behind!