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Labels in Paper or Model Space

14 REPLIES 14
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Message 1 of 15
10acken
2497 Views, 14 Replies

Labels in Paper or Model Space

I'm curious as to how other people approach this. I have done projects both ways - with all my labeling in model space, and with all my labeling in paper space. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I had come to feel that labeling in paper worked better for me. However, I was talking with a friend a few days ago who is a firm believer that labeling in model space is the way to go.

What's your opinion?
14 REPLIES 14
Message 2 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: 10acken

You will get 50-50 here. This has been discussed many times in the AutoCAD
forum if you wish to search. There are many opinions in those threads.

--
Matt Kolberg
Global CADD Systems - A division of Cansel
Message 3 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: 10acken

To add:

In Civil 3D, you MUST label in Model Space, at least with Civil 3D labels.
You can place AutoCAD text wherever you wish.. So that may affect your
decision.

--
Matt Kolberg
Global CADD Systems - A division of Cansel

"10acKen" wrote in message news:6401456@discussion.autodesk.com...
> I'm curious as to how other people approach this. I have done projects
> both ways - with all my labeling in model space, and with all my labeling
> in paper space. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I had
> come to feel that labeling in paper worked better for me. However, I was
> talking with a friend a few days ago who is a firm believer that labeling
> in model space is the way to go.
>
> What's your opinion?
Message 4 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: 10acken

10acKen wrote:
> I'm curious as to how other people approach this. I have done
> projects both ways - with all my labeling in model space, and with all
> my labeling in paper space. There are advantages and disadvantages to
> both. I had come to feel that labeling in paper worked better for me.
> However, I was talking with a friend a few days ago who is a firm
> believer that labeling in model space is the way to go.
>
> What's your opinion?

I dont even know how to make labels appear in correct scale in layout.
If i manage to achieve desired scale, after settin up another viewport
everything gets messed up. Now I set up labels in model space, export to
dwg and give it to drafters to play with layouts. But would really like
to know how to make it work as it should.
Message 5 of 15
10acken
in reply to: 10acken

True. I think I'll do a search like you suggested.
Message 6 of 15
10acken
in reply to: 10acken

I guess I should have clarified in my post... The labels on C3D objects are always in model. I was referring to plain old autocad text.
Message 7 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: 10acken

10acKen wrote:
> I guess I should have clarified in my post... The labels on C3D
> objects are always in model. I was referring to plain old autocad
> text.

Ok, i jumped in thread because i didnt remember to post a question here
when i came across that problem. Is it even possible to display c3d
labels correctly in layouts with different viewport scale? (I mean
always the same font size on paper)
Message 8 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: 10acken

That's one of the huge benefits of Civil 3D. Make all the labels in model
space without regard to scale. Each label will always plot the intended
height as long as your label style is defined properly.

--
Matt Kolberg
Global CADD Systems - A division of Cansel

"Domagoj X" wrote in message
news:6401556@discussion.autodesk.com...
> 10acKen wrote:
>> I guess I should have clarified in my post... The labels on C3D
>> objects are always in model. I was referring to plain old autocad
>> text.
>
> Ok, i jumped in thread because i didnt remember to post a question here
> when i came across that problem. Is it even possible to display c3d
> labels correctly in layouts with different viewport scale? (I mean
> always the same font size on paper)
Message 9 of 15
klugb
in reply to: 10acken

I agree that is great ........ Most of the time, but some times I want to make a 40 scale plot by have the labels stay at a 20 scale. I dont think you can do it without editing each style, which is not really an option with profiles & pipes labeled.
Bruce Klug, P.E.
AutoCAD Expert Elite Alumni
AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Civil 3D 2023.2.1

Win 10 Enterprise, 64-bit
Message 10 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: 10acken

Matt Kolberg wrote:
> That's one of the huge benefits of Civil 3D. Make all the labels in
> model
> space without regard to scale. Each label will always plot the
> intended
> height as long as your label style is defined properly.


So you have one label style for stationing and it would plot same font
height no matter if you put it in 1:1000 scale or 1:5000 scale? I
couldnt manage to do that and dont know what am i doing wrong. Few weeks
ago i made example file and sent it to local cad news group and guy who
claimed that i am doing something wrong never responded to that
question. If i find it i will post it here. Or make a new one later.
Message 11 of 15
Sinc
in reply to: 10acken

> {quote:title=klugb wrote:}{quote}
> I agree that is great ........ Most of the time, but some times I want to make a 40 scale plot by have the labels stay at a 20 scale. I dont think you can do it without editing each style, which is not really an option with profiles & pipes labeled.

Yep... Maybe one of these releases, Autodesk will reconcile C3D labels and Annotative Scales, so we can use Annotative Scales to control scaling of C3D labels, and they behave the same way as Annotative text... That would solve this problem.

Then we're just missing the fact that C3D labels can't have multiple leaders, the way MLEADERS can, or multiple locations in different scales, the way other Annotative objects can, or reference Fields the way that Annotative objects can.

Meanwhile, the Annotative stuff is missing the ability to "flip plan-readable", which is a pretty nice feature in C3D labels...

Hey, but at least all this confusion helps keep the C3D trainers busy... 🙂

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quuxsoft.com
Sinc
Message 12 of 15
stacy.dunn
in reply to: 10acken

Matt is talking about the plotted height of the text. If the style is set up to be 0.1" (on paper) it will always be that height regardless if the viewport scale is 1000 or 15000.

If you want the text to stay the same size relative to model space you can scale the border and play with the plot scales in the printer to get it to look right. Not a great solution, but it works in a pinch.
Stacy Dunn
Message 13 of 15
keithknifer
in reply to: 10acken

It has to be an annotative style.

Message 14 of 15
punisher
in reply to: stacy.dunn

Stacy,

Regarding the issue of wanting my text to stay at '20 scale' in '40 scale' view, the scaled border approach had been the official least offensive approach from Autodesk VAR.

 

I would NOT want the Civil 3D labals to act like annotative text.  The annotative text can be quite annoying and the fact that Civil 3D text already shows perfectly in every view is too nice.  My worry has been that Autodesk would ruin a solid thing.  Perhaps that is why we don't see a change regarding this issue.

 

The scaled border is a PITA, but we have all adopted different workflows to compensate, and scale the border when we have to.

 

John Evans

Autodesk Certified Professional

http://johnevansdesign.net

John Evans
Autodesk Certified Professional

http://designandmotion.net
Message 15 of 15
punisher
in reply to: 10acken

10acKen,

We use Model space to establish all design labeling.

Notes, details, border, etc all go in Paper Space

 

HotFix

Occasionally, rather than fight something in model space to format for Paper, we will hot fix it in the Paper Space.  Additional Civil 3D Parcel Labels on tracts that span numerous sheets.  It's is too easy to just add the label in Paper space and get on with the design. After all, we needed the a duplicate label to show in a particular view, easier to add a quick label in Paper Space and be done.

 

Non-site references

When we have long, non-design, non site issues like say some proximity to a zone that is far away, we can throw a reference to the line graphically and break a dimension to it all in Paper space and label it NTS.  It keeps my design area cleaned up, and it's faster to add that kind of thing in Paper Space, rather than clear a MS area and relayer some things. 

 

Awesome details

We have one situation that works too well. Utility Asbuilts, where the Gate Valve recovery distances have to be shown tied to above ground improvements.  We created details that contain a solid shade background and simple border. We add the schematic distances to the NTS detail, and position it wherever it is convenient, right in Paper space. It can cover non critical information, and no VP manipulation or layering is required. We might have 6 of these on each utility sheet leadered in as needed.

 

Flexibility problem

 The only dilema, and it is a problem each time, is that when we need to shift the VP a bit, any labeling that was directed at a particular item, will globally have to be adjusted and sometimes releadered.  You can't just adjust the VP quickly and move on.  Design labeling in Paperspace will kill that efficiency, as you fight to find other ways around the issue.

 

Right tool for the right job

There is no right way to do things.  There are standard practices that are adopted, but you can do what ever you like.  Applying ALL labels, borders, and details in Model OR Paper Space is innefficient and will suck the life right out of you.  Find the right mix that works for YOUR company's needs

 

John Evans

Autodesk Certified Professional

http://johnevansdesign.net

 

John Evans
Autodesk Certified Professional

http://designandmotion.net

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