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LDD 2005 vs C3D 2005?

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Message 1 of 26
Anonymous
419 Views, 25 Replies

LDD 2005 vs C3D 2005?

I am just wondering if there is any clear direction is to a migration path or what is going to happen with these two products? I would think that C3D 2005 would have replaced LDD entirely, but for now it seems that these two will be developed side by side. So does this mean we will have to purchase both products now? Right now C3D 2004 is free to LDD 2004 subscribers, but I am sure in the future autodesk will make us pay for both products. So is autodesk going to keep developing LDD? It doesn't make sense to me to continue developing LDD with the features that I see in C3D? I am just wondering if I should continue to teach & develop for a dead product like LDD?s
25 REPLIES 25
Message 2 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

My opinion only. From what I have found using C3D and the people that I know that use LDD, I have this to say. AutoCAD will lose 80% of their current customers if they drop LDD. Most companies won't travel the learning curve. MTC worth. wfb "Dave Lewis" wrote in message news:ve1f305tbm8as1p1okvdho8rlnm86a175q@4ax.com... | I am just wondering if there is any clear direction is to a migration path or what is going to happen with these two | products? I would think that C3D 2005 would have replaced LDD entirely, but for now it seems that these two will be | developed side by side. So does this mean we will have to purchase both products now? Right now C3D 2004 is free to | LDD 2004 subscribers, but I am sure in the future autodesk will make us pay for both products. So is autodesk going to | keep developing LDD? It doesn't make sense to me to continue developing LDD with the features that I see in C3D? I am | just wondering if I should continue to teach & develop for a dead product like LDD?s
Message 3 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi all, Unfortunately I am limited in what I can discuss publicly. Hope this info helps... I would expect to see LDT/Civil and Civil 3D to continue with a co-existence strategy for some time. The length of time will depend on how quickly we can round out the feature set and maturity of Civil 3D, how quickly you folks can setup your organizations to put Civil 3D into full production, and how quickly we can build the infrastructure to sell, support and train our users for successful implementation of the new product. That means there will be a next LDT/Civil Design. Does that mean that we'll have an LDT/Civil Design release 2006 or 2007? That depends on how and when we can meet the requirements I listed in the second sentence! "Right now C3D 2004 is free to LDD 2004 subscribers,..." - In reality, the product isn't free to anyone. Subscribers spend money every year to get upgrades, extensions, etc. Civil 3D is just another part of the LDT/Civil Design fulfillment. These customers with suscription will recieve LDT/Civil Design 2005 when it ships, and they'll receive the next Civil 3D release when it becomes available. My recommendation: If you have subscription - stay on subscription. If you don't have subscription, add subscription when you upgrade or buy new seats. Should you continue to teach and develop for a "dead" product like LDT? I'm guessing that most of our users will be using LDT/Civil as part of their production solution for next 12 - 24 months. Ideally, the % of work done in LDT/Civil drops significantly once we get key functionality into Civil 3D. I can tell you that we are investing in training and engineering efforts for LDT/Civil, so it probably makes sense for you to do the same thing. Note - i can't give you details on future functionality, but it's a reasonable guess that many of the new enhancements in LDT will be built in a way so that they can also be exposed in Civil 3D. If that's the case, training or content created for feature "X" in LDT may be usable in a future release of Civil 3D. On the flip side, functionality in Civil 3D such as dynamic relationships, model-based design, style system to be added to LDT/Civil. Sorry if I'm rambling. As I said, there are limits to what details I can provide. What I can clearly state is that we have clearly heard that we need to protect that investment that you have made in your existing products. Thanks Dave S "Dave Lewis" wrote in message news:ve1f305tbm8as1p1okvdho8rlnm86a175q@4ax.com... > I am just wondering if there is any clear direction is to a migration path or what is going to happen with these two > products? I would think that C3D 2005 would have replaced LDD entirely, but for now it seems that these two will be > developed side by side. So does this mean we will have to purchase both products now? Right now C3D 2004 is free to > LDD 2004 subscribers, but I am sure in the future autodesk will make us pay for both products. So is autodesk going to > keep developing LDD? It doesn't make sense to me to continue developing LDD with the features that I see in C3D? I am > just wondering if I should continue to teach & develop for a dead product like LDD?s
Message 4 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"Dave Simeone" wrote in message news:403a0054$1_2@newsprd01... SNIP > "Right now C3D 2004 is free to LDD 2004 subscribers,..." - In reality, the > product isn't free to anyone. SNIP Dave, I'm not on subscription and I received a link for Autodesk for a free download of Civil 3D. So in reality, it is free for anyone to try, and when it's released as a product, anyone can buy it also. Just wanted to clear that up, S
Message 5 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Is it really free if you had to pay for the subscription? Civil 3D is not recommended for production use at this time, but is offered as a "preview" so you can get ready for it when it is released for production. Those of us who have to be productive cannot afford to spend time playing with preview releases if there is no certainty as to what and when the final product will be. I don't know of any software company that issues "previews". They offer alpha and beta releases to those who want to "play" with them and trouble shoot them. Those Alpha and Beta "previews" are truly free. "Dave Lewis" wrote in message news:ve1f305tbm8as1p1okvdho8rlnm86a175q@4ax.com... > I am just wondering if there is any clear direction is to a migration path or what is going to happen with these two > products? I would think that C3D 2005 would have replaced LDD entirely, but for now it seems that these two will be > developed side by side. So does this mean we will have to purchase both products now? Right now C3D 2004 is free to > LDD 2004 subscribers, but I am sure in the future autodesk will make us pay for both products. So is autodesk going to > keep developing LDD? It doesn't make sense to me to continue developing LDD with the features that I see in C3D? I am > just wondering if I should continue to teach & develop for a dead product like LDD?s
Message 6 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

> AutoCAD will lose 80% of their current customers to whom? I am extremely curious to find out. thanks, -- Strah @ Langan "wfb" wrote in message news:40379d69$3_1@newsprd01... > My opinion only. From what I have found using C3D and the people that I > know that use LDD, I have this to say. AutoCAD will lose 80% of their > current customers if they drop LDD. Most companies won't travel the > learning curve. > > MTC worth. > > wfb > > > "Dave Lewis" wrote in message > news:ve1f305tbm8as1p1okvdho8rlnm86a175q@4ax.com... > | I am just wondering if there is any clear direction is to a migration path > or what is going to happen with these two > | products? I would think that C3D 2005 would have replaced LDD entirely, > but for now it seems that these two will be > | developed side by side. So does this mean we will have to purchase both > products now? Right now C3D 2004 is free to > | LDD 2004 subscribers, but I am sure in the future autodesk will make us > pay for both products. So is autodesk going to > | keep developing LDD? It doesn't make sense to me to continue developing > LDD with the features that I see in C3D? I am > | just wondering if I should continue to teach & develop for a dead product > like LDD?s > >
Message 7 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

snip>truly free At the cost of any downtime introduced when said Alpha or Beta version crashes, taking an unknown amount of data with it. Being on the "cutting edge" means you must be willing to endure some bloodshed sometimes (even and especially your own). -- Don Reichle "King of Work-Arounds" Ifland Engineers, Inc. "Neil Wilson" wrote in message news:403a2684_3@newsprd01... > Is it really free if you had to pay for the subscription? Civil 3D is not > recommended for production use at this time, but is offered as a "preview" > so you can get ready for it when it is released for production. Those of us > who have to be productive cannot afford to spend time playing with preview > releases if there is no certainty as to what and when the final product will > be. I don't know of any software company that issues "previews". They offer > alpha and beta releases to those who want to "play" with them and trouble > shoot them. Those Alpha and Beta "previews" are truly free. > > > "Dave Lewis" wrote in message > news:ve1f305tbm8as1p1okvdho8rlnm86a175q@4ax.com... > > I am just wondering if there is any clear direction is to a migration path > or what is going to happen with these two > > products? I would think that C3D 2005 would have replaced LDD entirely, > but for now it seems that these two will be > > developed side by side. So does this mean we will have to purchase both > products now? Right now C3D 2004 is free to > > LDD 2004 subscribers, but I am sure in the future autodesk will make us > pay for both products. So is autodesk going to > > keep developing LDD? It doesn't make sense to me to continue developing > LDD with the features that I see in C3D? I am > > just wondering if I should continue to teach & develop for a dead product > like LDD?s > >
Message 8 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

how, what did you do? "Steve" |>I'm not on subscription and I received a link for Autodesk for a free |>download of Civil 3D. So in reality, it is free for anyone to try, and when |>it's released as a product, anyone can buy it also. -------------------------- Dave Lewis CAD Manager http://www.cadthinking.com Just say no to HTML Posts!
Message 9 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

nope its not free, you are paying for it to be developed by your subscription. And the subscription is not returning any extensions for use in the current LDT product like it promised. That's why we are not on subscription among other issues. "Neil Wilson" |>Is it really free if you had to pay for the subscription? Civil 3D is not |>recommended for production use at this time, but is offered as a "preview" |>so you can get ready for it when it is released for production. Those of us |>who have to be productive cannot afford to spend time playing with preview |>releases if there is no certainty as to what and when the final product will |>be. I don't know of any software company that issues "previews". They offer |>alpha and beta releases to those who want to "play" with them and trouble |>shoot them. Those Alpha and Beta "previews" are truly free. -------------------------- Dave Lewis CAD Manager http://www.cadthinking.com Just say no to HTML Posts!
Message 10 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

1. Nobody, just not re-up. 2. Carlson ? 3. Eagle Point ? 4. Microstation ? I really don't know. Now, before anyone jumps on me, I know that Carlson & Eagle Point use AutoCAD engines. (Eagle points also uses other engines as well, or they use to.) "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message news:403a648a$1_3@newsprd01... | > AutoCAD will lose 80% of their current customers | | to whom? I am extremely curious to find out. | thanks, ||
Message 11 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

🙂 not only that.... switching to some other vendors would require very long learning process... well, in any case longer (I believe) than switching to a new product of vendor which environment you are accustomed to. cheers, -- Strah @ Langan "wfb" wrote in message news:403aaea2$1_3@newsprd01... > 1. Nobody, just not re-up. > 2. Carlson ? > 3. Eagle Point ? > 4. Microstation ? > > I really don't know. > > Now, before anyone jumps on me, I know that Carlson & Eagle Point use > AutoCAD engines. (Eagle points also uses other engines as well, or they use > to.) > > "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message > news:403a648a$1_3@newsprd01... > | > AutoCAD will lose 80% of their current customers > | > | to whom? I am extremely curious to find out. > | thanks, > || > >
Message 12 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I didn't request the information, Autodesk just sent it to me for unknown reasons. Here is the link, I'm pretty sure it's a public link. www.autodesk.com/civil3Ddemo They'll send a CD in 2-4 weeks. "Dave Lewis" wrote in message news:b5bl30p8ddbr3b4fpn76sncpa6e5pncdu2@4ax.com... > how, what did you do? > > "Steve" > |>I'm not on subscription and I received a link for Autodesk for a free > |>download of Civil 3D. So in reality, it is free for anyone to try, and when > |>it's released as a product, anyone can buy it also. > > -------------------------- > Dave Lewis > CAD Manager > http://www.cadthinking.com > > Just say no to HTML Posts!
Message 13 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi all - There is a 30 day trial that you can download from the Civil 3D site on Autodesk.com. We also gave 30 trial versions out at Autodesk University. The only way to get a non-trial version is: LDT + Civil subscription Civil Series subscription Thanks DAS "Dave Lewis" wrote in message news:b5bl30p8ddbr3b4fpn76sncpa6e5pncdu2@4ax.com... > how, what did you do? > > "Steve" > |>I'm not on subscription and I received a link for Autodesk for a free > |>download of Civil 3D. So in reality, it is free for anyone to try, and when > |>it's released as a product, anyone can buy it also. > > -------------------------- > Dave Lewis > CAD Manager > http://www.cadthinking.com > > Just say no to HTML Posts!
Message 14 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Funny, that's exactly what they told Henry Ford. Honestly Strahimir, this product bears only slight resemblance to soft margarine. You should take a look at what the competition has to offer while you're heaping praise upon Autodesk. You just might find the grass is truly greener, but not only due to the septic tank. -- Don Reichle "King of Work-Arounds" Ifland Engineers, Inc. "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message news:403ab6ba$1_1@newsprd01... > 🙂 not only that.... switching to some > other vendors would require very > long learning process... well, in any > case longer (I believe) than switching > to a new product of vendor which > environment you are accustomed to. > > cheers, > > -- > Strah @ Langan > > "wfb" wrote in message > news:403aaea2$1_3@newsprd01... > > 1. Nobody, just not re-up. > > 2. Carlson ? > > 3. Eagle Point ? > > 4. Microstation ? > > > > I really don't know. > > > > Now, before anyone jumps on me, I know that Carlson & Eagle Point use > > AutoCAD engines. (Eagle points also uses other engines as well, or they > use > > to.) > > > > "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message > > news:403a648a$1_3@newsprd01... > > | > AutoCAD will lose 80% of their current customers > > | > > | to whom? I am extremely curious to find out. > > | thanks, > > || > > > > > >
Message 15 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

OK, you're probably right Don. I remember now an old documentary film (or movie if you will) about Toyota's first attempts to sell cars in the USA. After the first year of lousy attempts, the conclusion of the filmmakers was they would never make it. But putting auto industry aside, I am honestly curious and always eager to learn: What does the competition have to offer? Are you just guessing or know? I bet Autodesk is aware of competition but I am also quite certain that they would like to hear out from users what it is, that the users consider better in competitors' products? In my experience they've been relatively responsive to users' requests. This newsgroup is set up so the users can be heard. No? I had a chance to teach both AutoCAD and Microstation at University level for a couple of years, lived on two continents, so had some sort of opportunity to compare the two products. With time I developed preference toward Autodesk's products because it looked to me they have better approach, not necessarily products, but customer service, ADN, AU, newsgroups, numerous IDE, volunteers (AUGI), being globally accepted, and many other things. I do not claim they are perfect, but I believe they offer best service of a kind on the market. About good solutions though, I always tend to be in limbo if necessary, so, educate me, what's the better at competitor's. You might make me switch, you never now. After all, using LDT/C3D is an option not a must. As a bottom line, if LandXML is accepted globally, and reaches its high, who cares what software you use for a design when you can exchange data with others smoothly at any given point of the project lifecycle. Cheers, -- Strah @ Langan "Don Reichle" wrote in message news:403bbcd5_2@newsprd01... > Funny, that's exactly what they told Henry Ford. > > Honestly Strahimir, this product bears only slight resemblance to soft > margarine. > > You should take a look at what the competition has to offer while you're > heaping praise upon Autodesk. You just might find the grass is truly > greener, but not only due to the septic tank. > -- > Don Reichle > "King of Work-Arounds" > Ifland Engineers, Inc. > > "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message > news:403ab6ba$1_1@newsprd01... > > 🙂 not only that.... switching to some > > other vendors would require very > > long learning process... well, in any > > case longer (I believe) than switching > > to a new product of vendor which > > environment you are accustomed to. > > > > cheers, > > > > -- > > Strah @ Langan > > > > "wfb" wrote in message > > news:403aaea2$1_3@newsprd01... > > > 1. Nobody, just not re-up. > > > 2. Carlson ? > > > 3. Eagle Point ? > > > 4. Microstation ? > > > > > > I really don't know. > > > > > > Now, before anyone jumps on me, I know that Carlson & Eagle Point use > > > AutoCAD engines. (Eagle points also uses other engines as well, or they > > use > > > to.) > > > > > > "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message > > > news:403a648a$1_3@newsprd01... > > > | > AutoCAD will lose 80% of their current customers > > > | > > > | to whom? I am extremely curious to find out. > > > | thanks, > > > || > > > > > > > > > > > >
Message 16 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

you cannot compare a monopolistic software company to the auto industry. There is no monopoly's in the auto industry. If there was only Ford say and someone new came along, no matter how good they could not break in. This is how operating systems and drafting programs are. When there is competition then others can join in with it. When there is no competition it is much more difficult to break out of that monopoly. Again I restate that there is no viable alternative to autocad all things considered. "Strahimir Antoljak" |>OK, you're probably right Don. |>I remember now an old documentary |>film (or movie if you will) about |>Toyota's first attempts to sell cars |>in the USA. After the first year of |>lousy attempts, the conclusion of the |>filmmakers was they would never |>make it. |> |>But putting auto industry aside, I am |>honestly curious and always eager to |>learn: What does the competition |>have to offer? Are you just guessing |>or know? -------------------------- Dave Lewis CAD Manager http://www.cadthinking.com Just say no to HTML Posts!
Message 17 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

ooh... I thought there was some sort of Antitrust and Monopoly Law in place.... sorry, my bad.... anyway I did not start with auto industry, I just joined in. -- Strah @ Langan "Dave Lewis" wrote in message news:uitn30h7523gkabchmuhj6392cv1nadl14@4ax.com... > you cannot compare a monopolistic software company to the auto industry. > There is no monopoly's in the auto industry. If there was only Ford say and > someone new came along, no matter how good they could not break in. This > is how operating systems and drafting programs are. When there is competition > then others can join in with it. When there is no competition it is much more > difficult to break out of that monopoly. > > Again I restate that there is no viable alternative to autocad all things considered. > > "Strahimir Antoljak" > |>OK, you're probably right Don. > |>I remember now an old documentary > |>film (or movie if you will) about > |>Toyota's first attempts to sell cars > |>in the USA. After the first year of > |>lousy attempts, the conclusion of the > |>filmmakers was they would never > |>make it. > |> > |>But putting auto industry aside, I am > |>honestly curious and always eager to > |>learn: What does the competition > |>have to offer? Are you just guessing > |>or know? > > -------------------------- > Dave Lewis > CAD Manager > http://www.cadthinking.com > > Just say no to HTML Posts!
Message 18 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

And, for the record, the only comparison made to the auto industry Dave was my reference to Henry Ford, and I was bringing him up not because of cars, but because of the assembly line. Next time I will be specific. And in reference to monopolies, though they may act as a benevolent dictator sometimes (we know what's best for you) they are beginning to act on our input with this product. Least we forget, the advent of Intellicad, while short-lived showed them that the competition can produce something which at times could be near equivalent to their product. -- Don Reichle "King of Work-Arounds" Ifland Engineers, Inc. "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message news:403bffbc$1_2@newsprd01... > ooh... > I thought there was some sort > of Antitrust and Monopoly Law > in place.... > sorry, my bad.... > anyway I did not start with auto > industry, I just joined in. > > -- > Strah @ Langan > > "Dave Lewis" wrote in message > news:uitn30h7523gkabchmuhj6392cv1nadl14@4ax.com... > > you cannot compare a monopolistic software company to the auto industry. > > There is no monopoly's in the auto industry. If there was only Ford say > and > > someone new came along, no matter how good they could not break in. This > > is how operating systems and drafting programs are. When there is > competition > > then others can join in with it. When there is no competition it is much > more > > difficult to break out of that monopoly. > > > > Again I restate that there is no viable alternative to autocad all things > considered. > > > > "Strahimir Antoljak" > > |>OK, you're probably right Don. > > |>I remember now an old documentary > > |>film (or movie if you will) about > > |>Toyota's first attempts to sell cars > > |>in the USA. After the first year of > > |>lousy attempts, the conclusion of the > > |>filmmakers was they would never > > |>make it. > > |> > > |>But putting auto industry aside, I am > > |>honestly curious and always eager to > > |>learn: What does the competition > > |>have to offer? Are you just guessing > > |>or know? > > > > -------------------------- > > Dave Lewis > > CAD Manager > > http://www.cadthinking.com > > > > Just say no to HTML Posts! > >
Message 19 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Strahimir, You might acquire a demonstration of Eagle Point to start with. I used their product from 1995 through 2001, and it has pros and cons just like LDT, but they do seem to respond to the customer base more quickly than the folks in NH. And while they also take on the mantle of the benevolent dictator (we know what's best for you) they will listen to the user base more readily, as I stated before. I have also just scratched the surface of Microstation enough to know that it's like going from a Texas Instruments calculator to a Hewlett-Packard calculator; you have to train yourself to think differently to use their tools. -- Don Reichle "King of Work-Arounds" Ifland Engineers, Inc. "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message news:403be716$1_1@newsprd01... > OK, you're probably right Don. > I remember now an old documentary > film (or movie if you will) about > Toyota's first attempts to sell cars > in the USA. After the first year of > lousy attempts, the conclusion of the > filmmakers was they would never > make it. > > But putting auto industry aside, I am > honestly curious and always eager to > learn: What does the competition > have to offer? Are you just guessing > or know? > > I bet Autodesk is aware of competition > but I am also quite certain that they > would like to hear out from users what it > is, that the users consider better in competitors' > products? In my experience they've been > relatively responsive to users' requests. > This newsgroup is set up so the users can > be heard. No? > > I had a chance to teach both AutoCAD and > Microstation at University level for a couple > of years, lived on two continents, so had some > sort of opportunity to compare the two products. > With time I developed preference toward > Autodesk's products because it looked to me > they have better approach, not necessarily > products, but customer service, ADN, AU, > newsgroups, numerous IDE, volunteers (AUGI), > being globally accepted, and many other things. > I do not claim they are perfect, but I believe they > offer best service of a kind on the market. About > good solutions though, I always tend to be in limbo > if necessary, so, educate me, what's the better at > competitor's. You might make me switch, you never > now. After all, using LDT/C3D is an option not a must. > As a bottom line, if LandXML is accepted globally, > and reaches its high, who cares what software you > use for a design when you can exchange data with > others smoothly at any given point of the project > lifecycle. > > Cheers, > > -- > Strah @ Langan > > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > news:403bbcd5_2@newsprd01... > > Funny, that's exactly what they told Henry Ford. > > > > Honestly Strahimir, this product bears only slight resemblance to soft > > margarine. > > > > You should take a look at what the competition has to offer while you're > > heaping praise upon Autodesk. You just might find the grass is truly > > greener, but not only due to the septic tank. > > -- > > Don Reichle > > "King of Work-Arounds" > > Ifland Engineers, Inc. > > > > "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message > > news:403ab6ba$1_1@newsprd01... > > > 🙂 not only that.... switching to some > > > other vendors would require very > > > long learning process... well, in any > > > case longer (I believe) than switching > > > to a new product of vendor which > > > environment you are accustomed to. > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > -- > > > Strah @ Langan > > > > > > "wfb" wrote in message > > > news:403aaea2$1_3@newsprd01... > > > > 1. Nobody, just not re-up. > > > > 2. Carlson ? > > > > 3. Eagle Point ? > > > > 4. Microstation ? > > > > > > > > I really don't know. > > > > > > > > Now, before anyone jumps on me, I know that Carlson & Eagle Point use > > > > AutoCAD engines. (Eagle points also uses other engines as well, or > they > > > use > > > > to.) > > > > > > > > "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message > > > > news:403a648a$1_3@newsprd01... > > > > | > AutoCAD will lose 80% of their current customers > > > > | > > > > | to whom? I am extremely curious to find out. > > > > | thanks, > > > > || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Message 20 of 26
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

ya I guess I missed how toyota and the assembly line worked in that example True they may be turning over a new leaf, but its sure is costing alot to do that. I still think they are only partially listening to their users. Look at all the users here in these newsgroups that complain about alot of things and yet there is no action. Funny thing is, after I told the owners last week about the new pricing model, they asked me if there was any alternatives to autodesk and land desktop. So I talked about the alternatives and it became apparent to them real quick that we had no choice, we are forced to stay with autodesk. We cannot change and autodesk knows it. That is a monopoly that is not in our best interest. "Don Reichle" |>And, for the record, the only comparison made to the auto industry Dave was |>my reference to Henry Ford, and I was bringing him up not because of cars, |>but because of the assembly line. Next time I will be specific. |> |>And in reference to monopolies, though they may act as a benevolent dictator |>sometimes (we know what's best for you) they are beginning to act on our |>input with this product. Least we forget, the advent of Intellicad, while |>short-lived showed them that the competition can produce something which at |>times could be near equivalent to their product. -------------------------- Dave Lewis CAD Manager http://www.cadthinking.com Just say no to HTML Posts!

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