How do you handle projects in 3D?

[annw2]

Trying to make sense of 3D tutorial to figure out if we even want to install 3d.

The tutorial says that the project menu is no longer there. From the tutorial it looks like all project data has to be kept in one CAD file rather than an external database. I have ALWAYS HATED THE 'PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET APPROACH' That ensures that if a file corrupts, which ALWAYS happens to me with proposed grading in LDD/Civil, only one file and not the entire project is lost. It also keeps the computer from dragging with very large projects.

In the 90's, I was working an interstate project with over 36 exisitng aerial drawings alone. I could only open one at a time without the computer running out of memory. We were looking at Eagle Point as an add on until I called up to confirm that all project data had to be kept in one data file. The salesman happily confirmed that information. I then explained the situation to him and that he had just told me his product was worthless.

[Anonymous]

>>The tutorial says that the project menu is no longer there. <<
Not exactly true. You accress data from other parts of the project in a different way.

>> From the tutorial it looks like all project data has to be kept in one CAD file rather than an external database. <<

Project data is contained in dwg files. Not just one.
Many ways of manageing project data has been incorporated in this product.

>>in the 90's, I was working an interstate project with over 36 existing aerial drawings alone. <<

It's not the 90's anymore.

HTH

John Postlewait
IS Department
George Butler Associates, Inc.

[Anonymous]

There are 2 ways you can manage objects / dwg's. Data shortcuts and Vault.
There are several webcasts on the Autodesk website with great info on how
Vault works. Not too many on Data Shortcuts because they have only been
available for Civil 3D 2007 since November. They are easy to use. Take a
look at the help files. Vault is a little more complicated, but VERY
poweful.

No need to worry about having all your eggs in one basket. Civil 3D handles
projects nicely.

Matt

[annw2]

If the project data is handled in the drawings, how does the software keep track of the related information across several files?

It may not be the 90's anymore, but the concept still applies.

I see no advantage to bottlenecking a large project if only one person can work on it at a time. I trade off the labeling, sheet set up, sidewalk hatching, plotting, etc to the drafting staff while I work on separate files to do the calculations. This doesn't seem possible with 3d judging by the tutorials.

[Sinc]

"handles projects nicely" is a bit of an overstatement. Project management is basically nonexistent unless you use the Vault. And the Vault really wasn't designed for PM - PM is really hacked onto the product there. If PM were handled in the core product, a lot of other annoyances could be dealt with (like the incessant browsing required in Autocad products, even when using Favorite folders and "My Places" lists in dialog boxes that have them). But unfortunately, Autodesk seems to really want to use the Vault for PM in C3D.

Autodesk is also trying to use the Vault to control access to model data, which is another task it isn't really designed for. This means model data management requires lots of concious effort on the part of the user, such as deciding which drawing files to put things in, etc. Regardless of whether you use Vault or Data Shortcuts to manage model data, the user must explicitly worry about lots of things that could happen transparently, with different software design. It works, but it's far from ideal, and makes the software much harder to use than it could otherwise be.

I keep hoping that Autodesk will provide REAL project and model data management functionality built-in to Autocad and C3D, rather than continuing to try to shoehorn the Vault into handling the tasks, but Autodesk seems to have this inexplicable infatuation with the Vault... It's quite unfortunate.

[kcobabe]

Well I think it all depends on how you setup your directories on if the project is managed well.

I do not use vault, but I setup a prototype project directory and when I start a new project the same things happen as in LDD just I have to manually copy and paste the directories first.

I also have found the sheet set manager a good way to manage the drawings as well.

[annw2]

Is Vault a command or another software package we have to buy to make 3d usable.

You can't copy project directorys to create projects in Civil. The pipeworks won't work.

Does that mean Autodesk fixed that bug or that pipeworks still doesn't work?

[jwedding]

Wow.

Start from the top. Annw2, please call your reseller. They sold you the box,
and owe it to you to at least give you some basic information. To be honest,
you're not even asking the right questions. I know that sounds terrible, but
your questions all lead to more questions.

In the end, an hour with your reseller (that you've PAID!) would really
clarify a lot of the things you're asking. If at the end of that time you
still have questions, at least you'll be better able to ask good questions.

Call them....

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2007
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 2G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[annw2]

I was finally able to get the technical trainer for my reseller. He was able to answer a LOT of questions. Unfortunately, he is also VERY difficult to get a hold of. The non technical staff are very good about trying to help, but are limited in what they can do.

[dana.probert]

there are some great papers and recorded sessions about project data management in civil 3d at AU Online

Some to check out:

CV32-3 Civil 3D®: Pre-Implementation Considerations
http://au.autodesk.com/sessions/civilandgeospatial/detail/17057/
Considering Civil 3D? Then consider these aspects of a successful implementation: Does your hardware meet the required specifications? Will you use distributed or single license management? What about cascading licenses? Will you create Object and Label Styles in-house or outsource them? Do you know what types of Styles are needed? Who will have rights to modify templates and styles? How will projects be managed? Who will setup and configure Vault? Who will maintain users? How will you train your staff? Who will mentor your users? How do you select the correct pilot project? Who will lead the deployment team? Where do you go for help? This session is packed full of useful information, including the answers to these and many more questions about Civil 3D. Take this class before considering implementing Civil 3D.

CV32-1L Cracking the Vault: Project Management for Civil 3D® 2007
http://au.autodesk.com/sessions/civilandgeospatial/detail/16967/

CV42-1 Project Management in Autodesk Civil 3D
http://au.autodesk.com/sessions/civilandgeospatial/detail/17083/
This class will cover the project management capabilities in Autodesk Civil 3D. Autodesk Civil 3D allows users to collaborate in two specific ways. The first method is to leverage the Data Shortcut features and Xref capability to collaborate within a design team. The strengths and weaknesses of this approach will be presented. The second model involves using the integrated functionality which leverages the Vault data management solution. The concepts and best practices of using the Vault Project Management functionality will be covered. This will include how to most efficiently segregate the model data, recommended data organization, using Xrefs, and overall best practices.

[Sinc]

>> Well I think it all depends on how you setup your directories on if the project is managed well.

No, that's not it.

>> I do not use vault, but I setup a prototype project directory and when I start a new project the same things happen as in LDD just I have to manually copy and paste the directories first.

Same here. The manual stuff is annoying - that's part of what I mean when I say there's no PM support in C3D.

By PM, I mean that C3D should internally support the creation of new projects. The project information that you enter when you create the project should be automatically accessible in the Sheet Set Manager. You should be able to jump to the "project home" directory from ANY dialog box that asks you to select a file. You should be able to quickly and easily archive an ENTIRE project. It should be possible to link mulitple projects together, similar to the PROJECTNAME stuff, but better. And, if "following standards" is deemed important to you, there should be a way of specifying which standard this project should follow. That should determine which templates are accessible, which tool palettes are visible, etc. There's a ton of other stuff. If Autodesk added all that, they're product would be much better.

But in order to get it all working right, they would have to pull PM out of the Vault. The Vault does not hook into the product in the right place to make it all feasible. Or at least, it's one of those "messy designs", that causes so many bugs and problems that the development becomes increasingly costly, and the end result will never work as well as if the design is clean.

PS: A lot of peole say "Project Management" when they really mean "Model Data Management". "Model Data Management" is actually a completely seperate problem. That's the part that data shortcuts address (poorly). Autodesk is using the Vault to handle this problem, too. But just as with PM, the Vault does not hook into the product in the correct way to handle this problem correctly. That's why the user must pay so much attention to which drawings design elements are created in, and why the user must constantly check-in and check-out files in order to do work. A clean solution would be largely transparent to the user, allowing the user to concentrate on the project, rather than on the model data management. It would be FAR nicer.

But the Vault is probably better than the lack of support in the C3D base product. We aren't currently using it, but we'll probably start, just because the capabilities in the Vault are at least SOMETHING, even if they are rather stilted and awkward.

[annw2]

I'm trying to figure out what happened to the Browse capability in the file open command. I went into 3d, selected file open and it gave me a . on the Command line. No window

Why did someone think that the 1980's DOS file open having to remember exact file name & path conventions were an improvement?

[Anonymous]

annw2 wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out what happened to the Browse capability in
> the file open command. I went into 3d, selected file open and it
> gave me a . on the Command line. No window
>
> Why did someone think that the 1980's DOS file open having to
> remember exact file name & path conventions were an improvement?

They didn't. Try typing FILEDIA at the command prompt and set it to 1

This should fix your problem.

--
Jason Hickey

Civil 3D 2007, SP3
Dell Precision M70
2 GIG RAM, 256 MB nVidia Quadro FX Go1400
Intel Centrino 2 gHz Processor

www.civil3d.com

[mmccall]

set FILEIDA=1

Some commands set it to 0 while they're running and it'll get left that way if they crash, or otherwise exit before completion.

I've modified my Open button to set it to 1 before running 'open'. This resets the variable and makes my Open button always open to a dialogue box. Simple 'set it and forget it' solution.

[annw2]

Simple if you know how to do that. I usually don't mess with buttons & don't know how. As I've been crashing everytime I open, I'm sure that is how it got messed up.

Thanks for help guys. I get a lot faster response here then with reseller.