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Help! 3D model not watertight / converting surface to solid / terrain modeling

28 REPLIES 28
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Message 1 of 29
zjkaufman
5315 Views, 28 Replies

Help! 3D model not watertight / converting surface to solid / terrain modeling

Hi all,

I am having urgent trouble with a project involving 3d modeling of terrain. This is a graduate-level project requiring ArcMap and Star-CCM+ software as well, which I am capable in, so I overlooked taking on the responsibility of modeling in Civil 3D (which I am a beginner at) and converting file formats. I was hoping one of you had some suggestions.

I am attempting to turn an elevation model of the island of Jerba into a 3D CAD model for use in computational aeroacoustic modeling (any of the typical file formats - .igs, .stl, etc. work for importing the model). I brought the data into Civil 3D 2014 as TIN Triangles, used convtosurface, and attempted to export as an igs. The export functioned but the file won't import into the other program because it requires a watertight solid geometry. I have tried surfsculpt and convtosolid as well as to create a mesh but I am sure I am giving it invalid commands because it keeps crashing the system.

Please help! This project needs to be done asap and I am utterly lost. I have attached the .dwg file I have been working in (FromIGS_WithSource.dwg). I can also give you the TIN Triangle exported from ArcMap, the original raster grid elevation file, or the non-functioning igs exported file if they are of more help — neither will attach to this message. I have access to Civil 3D 2014 and AutoCAD 2014. Please don't hesitate to let me know if there's any additional information I can give you.

Thanks in advance!

Zach

28 REPLIES 28
Message 2 of 29
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: zjkaufman

Hi,

 

>> converting surface to solid

A surface is a surface and has no volume, a 3D-solid has to be a volume.

So you have to use commands for giving the surface a thickness or a second surface as the lower one to build a volume between 2 surfaces (also not easy with Civi3D, but at least an option to create a 3D-solid).

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 3 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman

This is how to Convert a Civil 3D Tin Surface to AutoCAD Solid

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 4 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman


@zjkaufman wrote:

I am attempting to turn an elevation model of the island of Jerba into a 3D CAD model for use in computational aeroacoustic modeling (any of the typical file formats - .igs, .stl, etc. work for importing the model). I brought the data into Civil 3D 2014 as TIN Triangles, used convtosurface, and attempted to export as an igs. The export functioned but the file won't import into the other program because it requires a watertight solid geometry. I have tried surfsculpt and convtosolid as well as to create a mesh but I am sure I am giving it invalid commands because it keeps crashing the system.


A word of warning. I'm a dirt monkey working in Civil 3D and IDSP exclusively. What you call "typical file formats" I have no experience with. So I'm addressing this solely from a Civil 3D perspective.

 

OK. I took a look at your drawing. You do NOT have triangles in the Civil 3D sense of the word. You have a bunch of Splines. I'm trying to convert them to lines so they can be added to a Surface. But that's taking a long time (and I have a powerful machine).

 

If you can get the surface in another format. Preferably one that can be imported as lines or 3D faces. That would make the task much easier. If that's what comes out of ArcMap. Great.

 

I'm up to a point where I've converted the splines to polylines and now am trying to explode the polylines. That's been running for a while. I'll post again if I get results.

 

Allen Jessup


Civil 3D 2012 SP 3 / IDSP 2014
Dell Precision T3610, Xeon CPU 3.70 GHz
Win 7 Pro, 64-bit,32 GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro K4000
Samsung SSD 512GB
HGST (WD) 512GB drive

 



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 5 of 29

Hi Allen,

 

you might try command _REGION first to convert the splines to regions, then you can continue with extruding along a path and _UNION at the end.

I guess that's faster, but have not tried it.

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 6 of 29
zjkaufman
in reply to: AllenJessup

Thank you so much Allen -- I took a stab at interpreting our suggestions and went back into ArcMap to see what forms I could export the TINs as. I have attached a couple attempts, though I am not entirely sure of the characteristics of each file format beyond the description given by the ArcMap tool (which told me the previous file was in triangles) or what most easily facilitates being imported.

 

Added to the previous google drive (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6zt3I2EQtAVRHJ4QmVJVW1NUUE&usp=sharing) are .shp files for the TIN breaklines (Allen_TIN_Line) , nodes (Allen_TIN_Node), polygon (Allen_TIN_Domain), line (Allen_TIN_Domain2), and edge (Allen_TIN_Edge).

Also there are the corresponding .dwg's that result for each when I 'export to cad' via ArcMap. If a .dxf or alternate file format is more helpful, please let me know. Thank you again for everything!

Message 7 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman

Unfortunatly I can't access the google drive from here. Can you attach a couple of the DWG file here?

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 8 of 29
zjkaufman
in reply to: AllenJessup

Absolutely (Post 1/2)

Message 9 of 29
zjkaufman
in reply to: AllenJessup

(Post 2/2)

 

Unfortunately the 'edge' file is too large; if you think it might be of particular use I am happy to try and send it in another manner. Thanks again.

Message 10 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman

OK. I did manage a Civil 3D Surface from the first drawing.

 

  • Use the PEdit command.
  • Before selecting anything enter M for multiple.
  • Select all the Splines and answer Y(es) to convert to Polylines.
  • Explode all the resultant polylines.
  • Add the resultant lines to the Civil 3D Surface.
  • Follow the directions from the link in my original reply to create a solid

 

Note. The resultant Civil 3D Surface may require some editing before conversion. First thing would be to add a boundary at the extents of the island.

 

I'll now look at the other drawings.

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 11 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman

Line, Domain_CADand Domain2_CAD are all the same. They contain the outline of the island that can be used for the boundary. Node_CAD.dwg contains AutoCAD points that can be used for a Surface. However. Since the program will interpolate between them based on it's own algorithm. It may not duplicate the Tin as shown in FromIGS_WithSources.dwg. Whether this matters or not is for you to decide.

 

So if you want as exact a duplication as possible. Use the FromIGS_WithSources.dwg. If any Surface is acceptable. Use the Node_CAD.dwg. In either case use the 3Dpolyline from Line_CAD.dwg as a Surface Boundary.

 

BTW. What type of SHP file do you have?

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 12 of 29
zjkaufman
in reply to: AllenJessup

I am having a little trouble with your instructions for the FromIGS_WithSources.dwg file. Aftr I use PEdit, enter M, select everything, and enter Y (I allow it to disregard draw order) I get further options [Close Open Spline curve Decurve Reverse Undo]. I selected Close (is that ok?) and exploded the polylines. What is the proper way to add them to a surface afteward? Convtosurface crashed my system, but I am guessing there's a more appropriate command regardless. I apologize if this is remedial. Also, any surface is accepatable so I would be happy to used Node_CAD.dwg, though I similarly do not know exactly how to go about making those nodes into a surface.

 

Thank you for bearing with me,

 

Zach

Message 13 of 29
zjkaufman
in reply to: AllenJessup

Also, I have all of the same files as .shp's that I do as .dwg's. Would they be of any additional help? I am also generating all of this data based on an original raster elevation dataset that presents as a folder with 5 .adf files. Thanks again.

Message 14 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman

Close woudn't have hurt because once you explode the polylines it no longer applies. To add the resultant lines to a Civil 3D surface.

 

If the Toolspace is not open. Go to Home > Pallets > toolspace and open it.

On the prospector Tab right click on Surface and select new surface.

Accept the defaults for the new surface.

Expand the new Surface and expand Definition.

Right click on Add Drawing Objects.

Select 'Lines" from the dialog box and the select all the lines in the drawing.

 

Insert the 3DPolyline from the line drawing and add it to the boundary definition in a similar manner. This should create a Civil 3D Surface that can be converted to a solid.

 

I'm also investigating Alfred Neswadba's suggestion regarding regions.

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 15 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman

No. If the shape files are what was in the drawing it wouldn't make any difference.

 

Allen

 

 



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 16 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman

I tried Alfred's method and the program failed.

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 17 of 29
zjkaufman
in reply to: AllenJessup

Allen,

 

I can't thank you enough for your help so far, but I am still struggling to create a surface / solid. When I insert the Line_CAD file (which has to be scaled x 12 for some reason), it won't allow me to select it as a boundary. I attempted to convert my surface into a solid anyway and it crashes when I try to extrude. Do you have any suggestions or can I impose even further as to ask you to attempt to generate / post a solid in the event that my system simply can't handle it?

 

Thanks,

 

Zach

Message 18 of 29
AllenJessup
in reply to: zjkaufman

I'll take that up in the morning. Trying to extrude after converting the splines to regions also crashed my computer. Homeward bound now.

Allen




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Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 19 of 29
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: zjkaufman

Hi,

 

I was able to convert them to regions and then extrude them (with option direction), but ended in "not possible on my system" when trying to unify them.

I guess there are also conflicts as there are vertical faces, that makes it a) difficult for extruding and then difficult for unifying.

 

Why do you need it as solid, what's the goal?

 

Sorry, - alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 20 of 29
zjkaufman
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

I appreciate the effort Alfred, thanks. The goal is to import the 3D model of the island into computational fluid dynamics software to assign it boundary conditions for sound propagation emanating above. The software I have access to is Star-CCM+, which imports geometries from .igs, .stl, .stp, parasolids, CATIA files, .sldprt, .prt, .asm, or .vda, and requires them to be watertight.

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