Grading causes crash

[Anonymous]

I want to use a sImple grading, just 4:1 to existing ground from a feature line that essentially follows the existing ground surface.

Civil 3D crashes anytime I try to create the grading. I am looking for possible causes. Is there a limit to the number of elevation points on a feature line used for grading? The feature line was created from an alignment that had 30-50' radius curves also (3 total). Looking for ideas on what is causing the crash.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing Matt. Its good to hear that things seem to have gotten a little bit better. It'd be nice if the in-house tools worked well enough not to need anything 3rd party.

I'd be interested in those pics.

[Anonymous]

I have found most workarounds to the problems, with the exception of being
able to offset a contour at a grade WITHOUT using a Grading Object.
Sometimes, if the Grading Object just wants to boot me out of the program,
I'd just as soon like to offset a contour at grade or slope. Is that what
you are saying you can still do in 2009 Matt? Please tell me where that
feature is. Once I find all of the workarounds, maybe I won't complain so
much!

Thanks, Tim

wrote in message news:5996859@discussion.autodesk.com...
I am not sure I want to be the contrary one in this thread, but I haven't
had too many issues with GO in 2009. Yes, per support , I corrupted a
featureline or two, but I seem to manage them well. I will have post a
couple of interesting pictures when I am in front of C3d.

As for grading manually - what else do you need. Featureline offsets, curb,
point interpolation, set by slope is all in there now. Polyline @ elevation
add to surface can be done too. EE ProPack has a daylight creator. You can
manually create you grading object with a rectangular featureline and
infill.

Matthew Anderson, PE

[Sinc]

That's definitely true.

Once you use a version of C3D long enough to figure out the typical issues that you run into with your particular line of work, it's possible to go for a number of hours without an issue. In those time periods, C3D can actually be fun to use.

Of course, if you are trying to show someone a particularly neat feature in C3D, that's a great way to make it start crashing inexplicably again. Deadlines are also a good way to cause the crashing to re-appear.

I think C3D comes with a hidden application called "Gremlinz". It's like those silly deskop apps "Catz" and "Dogz", except with, well, gremlins. Keep the Gremlinz away from light and water, and there's no problem. But if you are careless or ignorant of the rules for "gremlin care", woe is you... 🙂

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quux.biz
http://www.sincpac3d.com

[Matt.Anderson]

Tim -

Here is the first set of grading objects that I used as an example - three ponds grading up and grading down. The ponds needs to be built on the side of a hill.

This is/was iteration number three. At least two more were computed and edited live. All of these edits were completed with 2008. The only problem was the inability of 2008 to make grading objects interact with each other.

What I have found is that if your featureline doesn't like going to grade - get rid of it, and create a new one on a new site.

As for offsetting a contour at grade or slope? - Look at the end of your Featureline toolbar - the command "offsetfeature".
Isn't most grading just that - an offset over and up? or over and down? With a little math or a bunch of parentheses - it is quick.

In 2009, there is a new toolbar Featureline grading by Reference that allows your to grade an offset featureline based on adjacents objects that have a Z elevation. For example, if you used point objects, (the transparent command 'PO) can be used to edit a featurelines vertex elevations.

Matthew Anderson, PE
Vice President
Joseph A Schudt & Associates
anderson at jaseng dot com

[Anonymous]

Thanks for taking the time with that Matt. That is why I like this NG so
much. Plenty of interactive help!
A couple of questions. What do you mean by
"What I have found is that if your featureline doesn't like going to grade"
?

I use the feature line offset constantly. I like that. Especially since you
can get a true arc with feature lines that you couldn't get with LDD.
HOLY SMOKE! I'M A DUMMY. Some fo you already knew that. You can use the
Feature line Offset tool to offset plines and change their elevation! Blow
me down. I hadn't even tried it with a pline. Perfect for when the Grading
Object keeps crashing and you just want to get done.

I'll look into the Feature Line by Reference thing. Not sure I understand
what that is for.

Thanks!


wrote in message news:5997903@discussion.autodesk.com...
Tim -

Here is the first set of grading objects that I used as an example - three
ponds grading up and grading down. The ponds needs to be built on the side
of a hill.

This is/was iteration number three. At least two more were computed and
edited live. All of these edits were completed with 2008. The only problem
was the inability of 2008 to make grading objects interact with each other.

What I have found is that if your featureline doesn't like going to grade -
get rid o
f it, and create a new one on a new site.

As for offsetting a contour at grade or slope? - Look at the end of your
Featureline toolbar - the command "offsetfeature".
Isn't most grading just that - an offset over and up? or over and down?
With a little math or a bunch of parentheses - it is quick.

In 2009, there is a new toolbar Featureline grading by Reference that allows
your to grade an offset featureline based on adjacents objects that have a Z
elevation. For example, if you used
point objects, (the transparent command 'PO) can be used to edit a
featurelines vertex elevations.

Matthew Anderson, PE
Vice President
Joseph A Schudt & Associates
anderson at jaseng dot com

[Matt.Anderson]

Oops.. If you featureline doesn't work with a grading object or it your attempt at grading crashes - don't bang your head against the wall for three hours trying to figure out why it will not work.

Featureline Elevations by Reference - consider it manual grading. You can edit the featureline elevations by referencing the elevation of something else - another featureline, point etc.

[Anonymous]

I have just started taking my complex feature lines and tracing over them
with fewer vertices. Even though they added the automatic dialog that pops
up and asks you if you want to weed the FL, it still crashes most of the
time. It *should* have an option to Auto -Weed the FL until it finds a
solution. Then a little warning about what it did.
Thanks Matt
Tim

wrote in message news:5998613@discussion.autodesk.com...
Oops.. If you featureline doesn't work with a grading object or it your
attempt at grading crashes - don't bang your head against the wall for three
hours trying to figure out why it will not work.

Featureline Elevations by Reference - consider it manual grading. You can
edit the featureline elevations by referencing the elevation of something
else - another featureline, point etc.

[Anonymous]

It crashes on me too. Just grading from my back of curb feature line to existing surface. It thinks for a while and just crashes. I can replicate it every time. Even as I am typing, I am waiting on C3D 2008 SP2 to finish crashing for about the third try to create this grading object.

Guess what, these grading objects crashed way back in 2005. Autodesk still can't get them to work 100%. We're still beta testing it for them. When do you think we'll have the first 100% stable (Autodesk, that means no new features that haven't been tested into the ground for stability)? New features are no longer valid excuses for feature instability in any feature. My money is on 2012? What does everyone think? Ohh.. there's the "Visual C++ R6025 pure virtual function call" error from my crash 5 minutes ago! Good grief!

[Anonymous]

AdammR, the only range of things causing the crash is easy. It's the Autodesk range! Guess what, when making new software, you support your past, present, and future customers by making sure that bringing files "forward" is as easy as taking them back. Except in Autodesk's case they're not to excited about going back to one of their previous versions because they want you to buy the new one. Then they're not even too interested in bringing your files up to the new version, because they don't how to in the first place! So they invent the marketing ploy called "Trusted DWG". That means "Trust us, we're going to screw up that file if it's older than last years version. In other words, if you don't stay on the yearly upgrade train, you will be punished!

Guess what? I want to create a grading object in a grading group that is making a surface that is pasted into a proposed surface that is pasted into another composite surface. That's called feature testing and feature stability. Other smaller companies do it all the time.

I don't care if my feature line is 500' or 501' feet long, I want it to grade to the surface every single time without ever crashing. If there is a maximum length on the feature line, then I want an error message that says, "feature line is too long". It's not difficult. They really can make software that does what it says it can, every single time, with no crashes. We've been waiting for 3 years for grading objects and feature lines to work as advertised. I'm on 2008 SP2 and I doubt it will get better any time soon. We just keep paying the monopoly money.

[Anonymous]

How about no grading objects until they work with everything in any possible AutoCAD drawing on the planet. I've wasted so much time trying to get grading objects to work in the past. I tried them in 2006 and put them down until 2008. I kind of like them in 2008 SP2, but I still get many that won't grade to surface without crashing C3D.

What's this crap about grading objects and FLs not being totally compatible. The grading objects make FLs themselves for crying out loud! I did successfully use the grading objects to help one of our engineers do a stockpile plan, though. I pleasant but brief respite in the ongoing war against Civil 3D and her evil "new feature" spawn.

[Anonymous]

Agreed. Grading is all that Civil engineering is about. How ironic that the buggiest "feature" is the grading object. I still catch our staff using polyline contours to grade slopes. When I "lovingly encourage" them to use grading objects I usually end up looking like the idiot because of all the crashes and complicated jargon. I did get one stockpile plan with two separate stockpiles out of the grading objects feature. It even gave us volumes and everything without crashing this time. I guess if you have enough patience. Wish our clients had the same amount of patience.

[Anonymous]

CF:

How about doing this? Will you submit your drawing that you can crash each
and every time to one of the gurus in this NG? I am thinking about perhaps
Jeff Mishler or someone as proficient as he is. Now hopefully, Jeff won't
get aggravated at me for volunteering him, I am sure we can find someone
else if that is a problem.

It would be interesting if someone can find a reason for your everyday
crashing.

Bill

wrote in message news:6029782@discussion.autodesk.com...
It crashes on me too. Just grading from my back of curb feature line to
existing surface. It thinks for a while and just crashes. I can replicate
it every time. Even as I am typing, I am waiting on C3D 2008 SP2 to finish
crashing for about the third try to create this grading object.

Guess what, these grading objects crashed way back in 2005. Autodesk still
can't get them to work 100%. We're still beta testing it for them. When do
you think we'll have the first 100% stable (Autodesk, that means no new
features that haven't been tested into the ground for stability)? New
features are no longer valid excuses for feature instability in any feature.
My money is on 2012? What does everyone think? Ohh.. there's the "Visual
C++ R6025 pure virtual function call" error from my crash 5 minutes ago!
Good grief!

[Anonymous]

Sure, Bring it on! I'm a glutton for punishment, er, uh, I mean, I like a
good challenge. 🙂


"wfb" wrote in message
news:6029942@discussion.autodesk.com...
CF:

How about doing this? Will you submit your drawing that you can crash each
and every time to one of the gurus in this NG? I am thinking about perhaps
Jeff Mishler or someone as proficient as he is. Now hopefully, Jeff won't
get aggravated at me for volunteering him, I am sure we can find someone
else if that is a problem.

It would be interesting if someone can find a reason for your everyday
crashing.

Bill

wrote in message news:6029782@discussion.autodesk.com...
It crashes on me too. Just grading from my back of curb feature line to
existing surface. It thinks for a while and just crashes. I can replicate
it every time. Even as I am typing, I am waiting on C3D 2008 SP2 to finish
crashing for about the third try to create this grading object.

Guess what, these grading objects crashed way back in 2005. Autodesk still
can't get them to work 100%. We're still beta testing it for them. When do
you think we'll have the first 100% stable (Autodesk, that means no new
features that haven't been tested into the ground for stability)? New
features are no longer valid excuses for feature instability in any feature.
My money is on 2012? What does everyone think? Ohh.. there's the "Visual
C++ R6025 pure virtual function call" error from my crash 5 minutes ago!
Good grief!

[Anonymous]

I'd also like to take a look at it.

email me daniel dot philbrick @

Daniel Philbrick
Autodesk, Inc.

"Jeff Mishler" wrote in message
news:6030694@discussion.autodesk.com...
Sure, Bring it on! I'm a glutton for punishment, er, uh, I mean, I like a
good challenge. 🙂


"wfb" wrote in message
news:6029942@discussion.autodesk.com...
CF:

How about doing this? Will you submit your drawing that you can crash each
and every time to one of the gurus in this NG? I am thinking about perhaps
Jeff Mishler or someone as proficient as he is. Now hopefully, Jeff won't
get aggravated at me for volunteering him, I am sure we can find someone
else if that is a problem.

It would be interesting if someone can find a reason for your everyday
crashing.

Bill

wrote in message news:6029782@discussion.autodesk.com...
It crashes on me too. Just grading from my back of curb feature line to
existing surface. It thinks for a while and just crashes. I can replicate
it every time. Even as I am typing, I am waiting on C3D 2008 SP2 to finish
crashing for about the third try to create this grading object.

Guess what, these grading objects crashed way back in 2005. Autodesk still
can't get them to work 100%. We're still beta testing it for them. When do
you think we'll have the first 100% stable (Autodesk, that means no new
features that haven't been tested into the ground for stability)? New
features are no longer valid excuses for feature instability in any feature.
My money is on 2012? What does everyone think? Ohh.. there's the "Visual
C++ R6025 pure virtual function call" error from my crash 5 minutes ago!
Good grief!

[annw2]

I am still getting crashes in 2009 & 2010.

Grading a ditch from a corridor hinge point. (I am going around corners for parking lots, but start with corridor.)

When I get back to grade back up to surface - crash.

I tried 2010 create grading object didn't crash, but rebuild surface did.

I am getting lots of crashes with grading objects.  It seems it isn't just me.

Is 2011 any better?