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Grading Object Stability?

18 REPLIES 18
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Message 1 of 19
t_mckenzie
655 Views, 18 Replies

Grading Object Stability?

This may have been answered already, but after searching for a bit I couldn't find a post that did. And I may need to move this post to a different thread. If so, I apologize.

 

So here is my question: Has the grading objects become anymore stabile than they are in '09? Unfortunately, our company hasn't been able to upgrade to a newer version and we are beginning to get to the point where 'hand grading' everything is taking too long. I am proficient in using the grading tools, but everytime I do, my drawing becomes corrupt. I want to push us to the newer versions if at all possible, but I don't want to oversell items that haven't been fixed yet.

 

Thanks,

-Tucker

18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
Neilw_05
in reply to: t_mckenzie

In my experience they are more stable in later versions, particularly since 2011, but they are still prone to corrupting and they still take too long to process for my comfort. You have to be careful to avoid certain conditions that cause problems.

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Message 3 of 19
MarySeufert
in reply to: t_mckenzie

I agree with Neil, that 2012 grading is more stable. I made the 09-12 jump and the biggest improvement for me has been when I do crash out while grading, 2012 actually creates a usable recovery dwg. 2009 tended to crash and burn with unusable recovery dwgs. I hated seeing those 0K dwgs in explorer! Haven't had that experience yet with 2012. So it has saved me from losing quite a bit of design work. Good luck pushing your powers that be to upgrade!

 

~ Mary

EXPERT ELITE MEMBER
Message 4 of 19
Neilw_05
in reply to: MarySeufert

I'm surprised at your success with recover files Mary. I have NEVER had a valid recover file in C3D, not even in 2012.

 

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D/Recover-files/m-p/3207624/highlight/true#M162628

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Message 5 of 19
MarySeufert
in reply to: Neilw_05

Actually had three yesterday... I was being very stubborn, and wanting to do grading in a way I know causes crashing. 😉 Who knows why recovery works for some and not others. Autosave does tend to slow me down at times, and will sometimes lock up C3D (and ACA) if it tries to run during a command. Then I have to do a task manager shut down, which is never pretty.

~ Mary

EXPERT ELITE MEMBER
Message 6 of 19

2012 has greatly improved stability in my experience.  But the big improvements is with corridors and the associated flexibiliy.  as such i rarely use grading objects anymore - maybe just to see where a project daylights and such, but rather use the subassemblies that link to a surface or such...  and i have yet to have any crash while making a corridor in 2012...  but it is a ver different way of thinking as i ground my teeth on landdesk faults and daylighting...

 

mark.

Message 7 of 19

So you do lot grading with corridors? I have to be able to create detailed grading (pads, side yard ditches, etc) and I haven't been able to make corridors do that efficiently.

 

-Tucker

Message 8 of 19

As it varies from project to project, but as a parking lot for example - in the past I couldn't figure out any way to effectively use corridors - it seemed too rediculous of a work flow process so I stuck with feature lines and grading objects.  So for odd geometries I mix both.  I make a simplified Master Surface using feature lines that represent the overall proposed planar surface.  I don't worry about sidewalks, curb and gutter, islands, etc but rather look at it like a large planar area.  And I don't worry about daylighting unless I think there is a serious concern somewhere.  I then use corridors and create alignments and target feature lines that get their grades from my Master Surface.  it makes the process fairly quick and easy.  I then use the corridor to create my final surface as it includes the "Top" codes - so it picks up all the curb and gutter, islands, and daylighting which I complete in the corridor. 

 

I can also then use the Code Set Styles for 2D hatching presentation and the quantities (QTO) from within the corridor menu. I end up with a bunch of baselines and regions in my corridor, but keeping some hand written notes helps with the organization. 

 

I also have been learning the Subassembly Compser and really like it even for subassemblies similar to stock ones, as I can use my own codes and better control the 2D presentation.  As a simple example, if you have an asphalt parking area that leads to a concrete area - you can probably use the same stock subassembly in different assemblies, but they use the same codes and as such, you can't separate their appearance or quantities...  hope that makes sense...

Message 9 of 19

It makes sense, and I use that method for commercial/industrial site grading. However, for a 50 lot subdivision, I don't think that would be the best way to do the grading.

 

I appreciate your input, but I really don't want a work around. I want to know how buggy the feature lines/grading objects are in the newer releases. That sounds rude, so please don't take it that way. I do appreciate your response.

 

Thanks,

-Tucker

Message 10 of 19
Bill.Neuhauser
in reply to: t_mckenzie

To maybe better explain what Markmcguire is trying to say, see my attached .doc from my AU 2009 presentation. The only thing I don't like about using feature lines and grading objects is that they have no thickness to their design! So you are not getting true earthworks for your design. Using corridors to do parking lots, ponds, cul-de-sacs, parcels and other weird shape areas will give you true earthwork qunatities, while FL and grading objects just give you the Top surface and not the datum surface.

 

I just found out that the file is too big to add here so email myself at bneuhauser at manageddesigninc dot com and I'll be more that happy to email you the 3mb file.

 

Bill Neuhauser P.E.

 

 

From 2009 to 2012 you are talking 12 itterations in the software!

 

Message 11 of 19
t_mckenzie
in reply to: Bill.Neuhauser

Bill,

 

I appreciate your response. I use this method for site grading (commercial/industrial). Do you think this method is also useful in lot grading? Most of my work is in SF residential, and I am looking for lot grading stability. I don't need a thickness in lot grading, so I am not sure if this is beneficial.

 

-Tucker

Message 12 of 19
Bill.Neuhauser
in reply to: t_mckenzie

All I can say is try it, if you are so affraid of grading objects in 2009 you can use this method I describe in c3d 2009 using corridors. Just have to think outside the box!

Message 13 of 19
jmayo-EE
in reply to: Bill.Neuhauser

I agree. I personally would not want to grade 50 lots with Feature lines, grading objects or 'by hand' (that can mean different things in drafting). I would be using a corridor.

John Mayo

EESignature

Message 14 of 19
t_mckenzie
in reply to: jmayo-EE

That would mean I would need about 75 alignments for a 50 lot subdivision. And I think that would be generous. Corridors don't model well when there is a perpendicular object (swales along lot lines) in my experience.

 

Again, I appreciate your response (and I have read and agree with a bunch of your posts in the C3D forums John), but my question is in regards to grading object stability.

 

Thanks,

-Tucker

Message 15 of 19

I don't recall corridors being all that stable in 2009 either...  My opinion is 2009 is the most unstable release ever from Autodesk for anything...  If I was using that version I would explode all my grading objects after creation then save - that was the "habit" I formed when using 2009.  That might be the reason I shy away from them now and try corridors...  plus most of the work we do involves pavement so I really need to quickly create earthwork surfaces which is a big plus with corridors...  we don't do much parcel work... from my limited use of grading objects in 2009, they have been stable...  and I would do anything to get away from 2009 and into 2012!

Message 16 of 19

Mark,

 

Thank you for your input. I disagree that '09 is the "most unstable release ever." I '07 was unbearable at out company. But that's not the point. Corridors are stable in '09. Never had a crash with any type of corridor function. I agree, I try to shy away from grading objects, but they COULD be so useful if they worked with out issues.

 

I agree, I want '12, but I don't make those calls unfortunately. We have a very dynamic work atmosphere right now, and mangement is more concerned (appropriately) with morale. We are at one third the size we were in '06, and have had numerous pay cuts. We are currently on the rebound, so I am sure management is looking at ways of keeping our talent here (read as restoring salaries).  I can understand and cope with that for now, but when the time comes, I want ammunition to go to management and drive the train.

 

Thanks again,

-Tucker

Message 17 of 19
jmayo-EE
in reply to: t_mckenzie

No problem Tucker but I did answer your question on stability as well. It is just buried  a bit deep. 😉

John Mayo

EESignature

Message 18 of 19
Neilw_05
in reply to: markmcguire3467

There have been several posts on the pros and cons of using corridors for grading. In somes cases they work well but often they do not. Usually they are just too tedious to set up and manipulate to be practical for grading, at least in the grading scenarios we face. Ultimately we need grading tools.

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Message 19 of 19
MarySeufert
in reply to: t_mckenzie

Tucker,

 

Bottom line for every company is productivity. I can accomplish about 2-3 times as much with '12 as I could with '09. Not every tool is perfect yet. You will still crash on occasion, but the frequency will diminish significantly. One thing you can list for them is the improvements that have occurred since the '09 release. Just compile the Autodesk marketing fluff for all the releases since then. The yearly updates tend to not bring the wow factor. But I can say that the '09 to '12 jump brings an OMG this is amazingly better feeling! At this point you will propably be making the jump to '13, so hopefully it will be even better.

 

Overall, grading stability is much improved. I would say that only 1 in about 30 grading operations that I do results in a crash on a bad day. Most of the time I go for weeks without crashing. For designing subdivisions, I would use a combo of corridors and grading. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a new subdivision in years!!! You are lucky that your area is rebounding. Home building here is lackluster at best.

 

~Mary

EXPERT ELITE MEMBER

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