Getting TDS RAW Survey Attributes into Civil 3D

[CharlesRheault6717]

We process survey data using Attributes to add extra intelligence and reduce errors.

For example, when shooting trees, the RAW file will contain something like this:

SS,OP 50,FP1299,AR308.2057,ZE91.0918,SD128.282,--TREE
FC,PN1299,FNTREE
AT,TNSZ,TV11.0
AT,TNTY,TVMAPLE

or when shooting a street sign:

SS,OP 50,FP1437,AR324.1135,ZE91.4728,SD123.235,--SIGN
FC,PN1437,FNSIGN
AT,TNTY,TVNO PARKING

The FC code sets up that attribute information will follow for the point number indicated by PN and the FN is basically explaining the name of the feature type. On the collector, this is all menu driven, making for few data entry errors.

The AT codes list the attributes name TN and then the TV reports its value.

Is there a way to preserve these attributes and their data when processing them into an FBK? Ideally, they would need to become part of a point description.

When processing this for that "other" CADD package, I am able to use these values in building labels for my survey points.

[stacy.dunn · Accepted solution]

The attributes can't be imported via field book.  You can however, still use the data in a drawing.  It will require using UDPs or User Defined Properties and a custom point format. 

You will need to export the attributes to an ascii file.  Each line in the ascii file should have the point number as well as the attribute. 

ex   100,TNSZ,TV11.0,TNTY,TVMAPLE

Once this file is complete, create user defined properties that uses the same formats and fields.  After the UPDs are created, create a point import format that uses the newly created UPDs.

ex PointNumber,String,String,String,String

You can then import the ascii file into the drawing that already contains the points.  The import process will ask you to resolve duplicate points.  Select merge to add the attribute data to the drawing.  It will not change the existing points as long as you do not have a coordinate or elevation field in your import file format.

You can then create point label styles or table styles to utilize the additional information.

[DawnAW]

I am running into the same problem.  I am interested in trying this method.  I'm wondering, though, Is there an easy way to export the attributes to an ascii file?  Or is it a matter of editing the text file so that only the attributes remain?  Some of our surveys are quite lengthy and if this is the case it could become very time consuming.

Thank you

[stacy.dunn]

what software are you using to download/upload to your data collector?

[DawnAW]

I have to tell you from the start the I am not a surveyor.  I know that our surveyors use TDS equipment and then they create a RAW file.  I have been taking the RAW file and converting it to a FBK using Survey Link, but I don't get the attributes.  Previously they used Bentley Inroads to create a DGN which contained the attributes.  It seems to me that there is no easy way to duplicate this technology in Civil 3D (I hate to admit that since I am on "Team AutoCAD").  Thanks for any insights you may have.

[stacy.dunn]

Do you mind posing a RAW file?

[DawnAW]

I have attached a portion of one.  Like I said some of them get pretty lengthy.  I have saved it as a TXT file since the attachment could not allow a RAW file.

[CharlesRheault6717]

We actually use InRoads Survey for all of our processing.

However, I understand that Civil 3D is starting to support point coding in a manner that is very similar to InRoads Survey. Soas we llook at migrating from Land Desktop to Civil 3D,  I wanted to see if we can use the same raw file in either software.

Currently, we process the raw files and create 2D linework for AutoCAD or 3D symbols and linework for MicroStation. When we need the data in Land Desktop, we use LandXML to transfer the DTM and use a custom XML report to create a comma delimited PNEZD to bring in all of the AEC Points and Appropriate Blocks.

To get an ASCII file of the attributes, I'd modify my XML report to create that too.

[corboto]

I don't think TDS will export the attributes.  You will need to use Foresight or TGO (Trimble Geomatics Office) to open the .job file and then from there you can export the attributes.  I'm not sure why this isn't possible from the data collector.  Foresight will only export the attributes as either shapefiles or dxf's (with points as blocks with attributes); TGO will export attributes as an ascii file.  

These are the only ways I know to do this.  I love TDS but it's lack of advanced functionality is starting to catch up.  It's practically been the same piece of software for 10 years.  

[DawnAW]

I have tried creating 'user defined properties' and 'custom point format' and had success.  My only problem is manually isolating my attributes in the ASCII file is time consuming.  I have seen that there are "pattern scanning and processing language" programs such as gawk.exe or sed.exe that will isolate phrases in a text file and export them to a new ASCII file.  Has anyone used any of these or have a program that can be they would recommend?

Thanks

[CharlesRheault6717]

When we started using TDS, we were coming from a system where all information other than the codes were coming from notes and there was a lot of manual efforts necessary to parse through the notes to determine what was information needed for the survey and what was a note to the office personnel.

Initially we stayed with the notes, but eventually became aware of the benefits of attributes. A lot of the approach from the vendors seem to be for attaching intelligence for downstream processes, like GIS.

What we saw, was the ability to add intelligent notes to the survey. Basically, you could read the name of the attribute and know that the value was for a particular use.

Since then, we have had to, on occasion, deal with data from other vendors - GPS collectors can be a real problem when not in TDS format.

We have had these export ASCII lists of comma delimited attribute values without names. The order it listed them in varied if one or more values were not entered. For example one time a tree might get a size, species and drip line diameter, but another might be missing one or more of these So one time the list was A,B,C but on another it might be B,C or A,C or B or C. With no export of the name of the attribute, you could not be sure which value was which. Suddenly we were back to trying to interpret data one record at a time, manually.

[MATRIX3DSURVEYS]

TDS data import in to C3D:

*.RW5 file format can be processed in the Data Collector Link on the Survey menu.

Use the conversion to create the CR5 file and then convert that to a custom output PENZD.csv point file, import this file and apply description keys for line work and symbols.

Forget about Attributes: Keep it simple

Use Coding in the description field. (Coding has to match Description Keys setup in C3D exactly or it will not work) Codes should be picked from a library in the data collector to avoid keying errors.

Note: RW5 files can be edited in Borland Quattro Pro Spreadsheet.  MS Excel destroys some of the RW5 header info and it will not work. Save file as DOS.csv and the change extension back to .rw5 before importing with data collector link.

CR5 files are a binary file so don't even mess with them.

When using TDS in the field SHOOT ALL FORESIGHTS AS SIDE SHOTS USING THE TURNPOINT KEY INSERTS A LINE OF COORDINATES IN THE DATA FILE THAT PREVENTS REPROCESSING THE COORDINATES. (CHANGE ALL COORDINATE LINES EXCEPT TAKEOFF AND REFERENCE POINTS TO NOTES OR FILE WILL NOT REPROCESS) 

Leica Instruments and data processed in LGO allow data to be output in PENZD(A1)(A2).csv format and then imported in to C3D with an matching Description Key Set, and corresponding fields in the point file data base.

Use the instrument manufactures software to process and adjust survey data. Then export in PENZD(A).csv format.

There are a whole set of videos on You Tube about survey data collectors with C3D that detail setting up the Description Key Sets for Line work.

Jim

Surveyor / programer 

Matrix3Dsurveys

[OMCUSNR]

Haven't tried it, but couldn't you bring the ascii file into excel and rip out the collumns you don't want & then save back out as a csv file?

Reid

[DawnAW]

Yes!!  you can.  It might still be a little time consuming but this may be the wat to go.  I am tinkering with bringing in the attributes a different way but if that doesn't work this is probably what i will do.  Thanks for the input!

[CharlesRheault6717]

It took a significant amount of setup and effort, but we are able to create a PNEZD file from our survey raw files where the D portion (of PNEZD) contains known attribute values in a known order, allowing for the $1 $2 $3 to be useful and not needing us to rely on survey crews following very specific coding procedure or us to follow after them manually fixing things.

Attributes allow a menu based collection of supplemental information for a survey shot. It is the closest thing to fool-proof that we have found.

However, this methodology requires the use of InRoads Survey and its XML report cababilities, along with a custom developed XML Report. We are very happy with how it allows us to create linework and elaborate labeling routines, based upon the attributes and their values.

For me to suggest such a solution to a non-InRoads shop is probably over the top. I am also pretty sure that a lengthy discussion of our operation is best done via email as opposed to on an Autodesk Discussion Group.

What I was interested in, was to see if I can create linework in Civil 3D from our files without changing our coding methods. And ideally, I would like the linework as Civil 3D features and not AutoCAD polylines. From my understanding, Civil 3D features can be both 3D in nature while still using a con-continuous linetype. And if the attribute information could also be read and used, that would be a bonus.

[DawnAW]

I have been working with a feature in Survey Link that will bring the attributes into a DXF file.  I still have to manipulate them after they are in my drawing but at least I have them without having to mess with the FBK.  I think this may be the easiest way for me.  Thanks.

[jmccabeLSIT]

Bump.

Has this issue been resolved?

I'm the new guy in the office trying to setup Civil 3D for the privated side when our crews are used to InRoads and using feature attribute's when collecting field.  It is absolutley neccessary that I do not change the way things are done in the field so this means I have to figure out a way to bring in this supplemental survey data.

It must be automated (assuming multiple crews handing in multiple .raws from one large project).

Survey Link has a Survey Attribute Manager under the tools drop-down but what do I do with it?

[DawnAW]

I have been using the AutoCAD C3D Survey Link to do this.  This is what I do:

1.  I make sure that I have a .JOB file that is associated with the .RAW or .FBK file.  Also for this to work for me, I have to have a .FEA file that is associated with the field attributes.  I make sure that all of these files are together in the same folder.

2.  Open Survey Link and go to 'Tools>Survey Attribute Manager'.

3.  Go to 'File>Open' and open the .JOB file associated with the .RAW or .FBK file.  (If it gives an error when trying to open the .JOB file, it might mean that the .FEA file is missing).

4.  After it opens, click 'Export>AutoCAD DXF file' and save it.

5.  Wait for the 'Export Job Report'.

6.  If all is successful then you now have a DXF file has all of the Survey attributes as text.  You can save the DXF to a DWG and insert or reference it into your survey.

[CharlesRheault6717]

Is there some way to contact me via email or to send private messages? I might be able to share our InRoads workflow.

In testing, the results are satisfactory for Civil 3D, but are done as a mixture of InRoads and Civil 3D.

From what I am hearing, if what we have works, we will probably stick with it.

[jmccabeLSIT]

Everything is working except step 6.  I don't know how to articulate my problem at the moment.  My .dxf appears to be massive "x" points.  I am understanding the Survey Attribute Manager a little better and I think the answer for me lies there.

Thanks