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engrtech
Posts: 691
Registered: ‎05-05-2008
Message 21 of 27 (394 Views)

Re: GREAT improvement in C3D 2013...

04-18-2012 05:44 AM in reply to: AllenJessup

AllenJessup wrote:

BHFH wrote:

 

 why not have a 3 year cycle that matches the release of new dwg format with 1-2 SP per year? Between major releases, publish new features (that is to be released in the next major release) in the lab to let the trailbalazers debug them for you.


While this makes great sense from the view of both developers and users. It doesn't make as much sense from a bushiness standpoint. One of the reasons Autodesk switched to yearly releases is that they were having trouble justifying a yearly Subscription fee when only releasing software every 2 to 3 years.

 

It can also be more difficult on the user side because I would have trouble justifying the cost of Subscription if we only got a new release every 3 years. Don't get me wrong. I'd rather see the 3 year cycle. But trying to explain to our purchasing dept. Might get very interesting.

 

Allen


Subscription is roughly 10% to 15% of a full license cost.  It just makes good business sense to be on subscription even if the software was on a 3 or 5 year cycle.  There are other benefits to the subscription program besides just getting the latest release, albeit there ought to be more.  With a yearly cost, it's easy to budget for instead of having to come up with a large amount every 3 years.  Harder to budget for that than to just pay a yearly fee.

 

I think an 18 to 24 month development cycle would be excellent.  That would give them enough time to release a product that has new features as well as fixing others hopefully without breaking existing ones (ehem, survey database, raster image support, help files that do not explain "new" features, etc.).

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AllenJessup
Posts: 5,769
Registered: ‎05-21-2003
Message 22 of 27 (391 Views)

Re: GREAT improvement in C3D 2013...

04-18-2012 05:55 AM in reply to: engrtech

 

engrtech wrote:

 

Subscription is roughly 10% to 15% of a full license cost.  It just makes good business sense to be on subscription even if the software was on a 3 or 5 year cycle.  


Yes. It does make good bushiness sense. I've had us on Subscription since it was first called VIP. But I work for a local government. They never look past this years budget. We're not even allowed to enter in to a contract with more than a 1 year term [except for construction].

 

I would presume that if Autodesk went to a 3 year cycle the cost would be about 30% to upgrade to the next release. I know C3D is Subscription only but I also know some people still skip years and pay the penalty later.

 

Allen

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Sinc
Posts: 6,207
Registered: ‎11-18-2006
Message 23 of 27 (343 Views)

Re: GREAT improvement in C3D 2013...

04-19-2012 12:01 AM in reply to: AllenJessup

AllenJessup wrote:

While this makes great sense from the view of both developers and users. It doesn't make as much sense from a bushiness standpoint. One of the reasons Autodesk switched to yearly releases is that they were having trouble justifying a yearly Subscription fee when only releasing software every 2 to 3 years.

 



I disagree.  I've seen how possible it is to add HUGE amounts of additional functionality to C3D without releasing yet another incompatible release.  The other option works even better, since it's easier to push out additions in a .NET language, then fold them into the main program once they have gotten feedback, as opposed to what Autodesk is doing right now.

 

I think Autodesk would be able to provide much-better software, more-quickly and more-effectively, with that approach.  And it wouldn't force all users to deal with these constant yearly-release problems.  Assuming it was done well, of course...  I suppose Autodesk could always switch back to 18-month or 24-month major releases, and STILL release problematic software....  Not sure.  Just sure that as things stand now, every release creates as many problems as it solves, and the constant need to upgrade/test/deploy new incompatible releases every year is a drain on their customers.

Sinc
Distinguished Contributor
tmullins
Posts: 151
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 24 of 27 (328 Views)

Re: GREAT improvement in C3D 2013...

04-19-2012 04:41 AM in reply to: Sinc

Sinc wrote:

AllenJessup wrote:

While this makes great sense from the view of both developers and users. It doesn't make as much sense from a bushiness standpoint. One of the reasons Autodesk switched to yearly releases is that they were having trouble justifying a yearly Subscription fee when only releasing software every 2 to 3 years.

 



I disagree.  I've seen how possible it is to add HUGE amounts of additional functionality to C3D without releasing yet another incompatible release.  The other option works even better, since it's easier to push out additions in a .NET language, then fold them into the main program once they have gotten feedback, as opposed to what Autodesk is doing right now.

 

I think Autodesk would be able to provide much-better software, more-quickly and more-effectively, with that approach.  And it wouldn't force all users to deal with these constant yearly-release problems.  Assuming it was done well, of course...  I suppose Autodesk could always switch back to 18-month or 24-month major releases, and STILL release problematic software....  Not sure.  Just sure that as things stand now, every release creates as many problems as it solves, and the constant need to upgrade/test/deploy new incompatible releases every year is a drain on their customers.



I've always thought why not take 2012 for instance, work on all the bugs and kinks, update it and make it as rock solid as possible, call it 2013 and release it. Do that for a couple years/releases. That would take care of the compatibility problem between releases. Currently the "file format" means absolutely nothing to a civil guy. Good luck working between 2011 and 2012 even if they have the "same" dwg format.

 

For any new features go the route of Autodesk Labs and release them that way. Download them if you want or need them. I can't imagine that is an impossible task programming wise.

 

I would almost gaurantee that the majority of hardcore users would take a rock solid stable release that is being tweaked for several years, over a new release every spring with a few new bells and whistles (and sometimes far more bugs than new features) year after year. It's a no-brainer to me.

 

But I realize that marketing is what sells products. It might be hard to hold events touting the "new" more stable 2013 to the public although that's what the users want and need....just not the shareholders.

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AllenJessup
Posts: 5,769
Registered: ‎05-21-2003
Message 25 of 27 (326 Views)

Re: GREAT improvement in C3D 2013...

04-19-2012 04:59 AM in reply to: Sinc

Sinc wrote:

 

I disagree. 


I don't think we are disagreeing. I Know it can and should be done that way or something similar. But I don't think anything is going to change because the cooperate mind-set is that it's better to release dodgy software that people always pay for than to endanger profits.

 

Allen

New Member
cbrown6366
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎10-03-2012
Message 26 of 27 (192 Views)

Re: GREAT improvement in C3D 2013...

10-03-2012 01:51 PM in reply to: Sinc

On the subject of Microsurvey....

Our company does both engineering and surveying. The surveying department collects the field data, draws the topo surveys (including creating surfaces) and then gives the data to the engineering department.

 

We have just switched to Microsurvey to process our field data. We are still using LDD to create our surfaces, contours, etc. We then give the data to the engineering department and they use it for their site plans, construction plans, grading plans, drainage calculations etc. Our engineering department is also still using LDD.

 

There is some push for the surveyors to start using Microsurvey for drafting and creating surfaces. The engineering department is currently switching to Civil3D. What issues are there going to be if we use Microsurey CAD (not Microsurvey inCAD) to generate surfaces and contours and then the engineers try to use that data with Civil3D? Would it be better if we use Microsurvey to process the field data and then bring the points into Civil3D to generate our surfaces?

New Member
cbrown6366
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎10-03-2012
Message 27 of 27 (188 Views)

Re: GREAT improvement in C3D 2013...

10-03-2012 01:54 PM in reply to: Sinc

On the subject of Microsurvey....

Our company does both engineering and surveying. The surveying department collects the field data, draws the topo surveys (including creating surfaces) and then gives the data to the engineering department.

 

We have just switched to Microsurvey to process our field data. We are still using LDD to create our surfaces, contours, etc. We then give the data to the engineering department and they use it for their site plans, construction plans, grading plans, drainage calculations etc. Our engineering department is also still using LDD.

 

There is some push for the surveyors to start using Microsurvey for drafting and creating surfaces. The engineering department is currently switching to Civil3D. What issues are there going to be if we use Microsurey CAD (not Microsurvey inCAD) to generate surfaces and contours and then the engineers try to use that data with Civil3D? Would it be better if we use Microsurvey to process the field data and then bring the points into Civil3D to generate our surfaces?

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