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Fatal Errors & Unexpected Close

38 REPLIES 38
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Message 1 of 39
bb
Contributor
7531 Views, 38 Replies

Fatal Errors & Unexpected Close

 I need help trying to decide if I should give up on moving my office to Windows 7 and reload my systems back to Windows XP.  Here is the situation.  I have three machines running 64-bit Autocad Civil 3-D 2012.  Two are running Windows 7 and one is running in Windows XP.  The two machines running Windows 7 are experiencing a lot of fatal errors and unexpected close errors when people are doing simple 2D work in model space and in paper space.  This is happening to three people on two different machines and the errors occur regardless of the file being worked on.  Although there have been a few crashes over the last few weeks when doing 3D work, the problem seems to be rampant when we are working on 2D tasks.  Friday, the program was crashing approximately 2 - 3 times an hour. 

 

There are a variety of errors showing up, but here is the latest:

While working in model space, the cursor disappears - when the user hits "save" (everyone knows that moment of panic even if you saved 30 seconds ago!), a message box pops up stating :

INTERNAL ERROR !dbobji.cpp@388

When you leave the error box, the program closed.  When the program reopens, it is fine...for a while.

The file being worked on has a number of references and data shortcuts attached.  The file size is 5.6 mb with about 15 mg of attachments.  I won't try to attach it since it is so big, even when zipped.

 

I grabbed the installation disks and loaded most of the available english language updates and driver fixes this morning.  I confirmed that the most current version of MS .net  files are properly installed.  One of the users was able to work for about 1.5 hours before crashing after I made the changes, but then it crashed with the message shown above.

 

System configuration is:

AMD Athlon II x2 250 Processor 3.00 GHz

8 gb RAM

Window 7 64 bit Operating System

2 Acer AL2216W 22 inch monitors with ATI Radeon HD 4250 display adapters

 

 

 

38 REPLIES 38
Message 2 of 39
wfberry
in reply to: bb

Since no one seems to want to enter into this perhaps I could start something.  I know very little about AMD processors and seeing that Newegg sells your version for around $60 I suspect your problem is in the computer itself.  Too many of us are using Windows 7 with no problems to suspect the OS.  

 

Can you not upgrade one of your computers with a good motherboard running one of the new intel processors?

 

Bill

 

Message 3 of 39
darkman257
in reply to: wfberry

Bill - I too experience the same issues on my Win 7 machine.  I have audited my drawing and typically have to make serveral versions of my project to make sure that I can move forward incrementally.  I would be lucky if I only had one crash a day.  Just now, hence why I am on the DG looking around, I got "Fatal Error: Unhandled Access Violation Writing 0x10004600 Exception at 10004600h".  All I was doing was creating a wblock.  Other times it has been as simple as flipping layouts.  I am only running 40% of my RAM and less than 20% processing so I am pretty confident it is not a resource issue.  I could be wrong.  I just keep sending my error reports. 

Infrastructure Design Suite 2012 - Premium, Intel Quad Core 2.66 Ghz, 8 GB Ram, Nvidia Quadro FX4800

Dilbert's Salary Theorem: Postulate 1: Knowledge is Power Postulate 2: Time is Money. Power = Work / Time. Since Knowledge = Power,
then Knowledge = Work / Time, and Tme = Money, then Knowledge = Work / Money. Solving for Money, we get: Money = Work / Knowledge.
Thus as Knowledge approaches zero, money approaches infinity, regardless of the amount of work done.
Message 4 of 39
hgohel
in reply to: bb

@bb

 

The "ATI Radeon HD 4250" seem to be uncertified/unsupported graphics cards for AutoCAD 2012, and you may experience unknown issues with that.  You may want to consider upgrading to the latest WHQL certified drivers for that card as a frist step and check performance.  If problems continue, you may want to turn off all graphics hardware acceleration features and try again.  As a final step, obtain a supported graphics card and install a certified driver version and check performance.

 

If you can reproduce the fatal errors with a particular drawing & a set of known steps, you could open a support case with Autodesk technical support and see if we can reproduce the crashes on our end.

Himanshu Gohel
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 5 of 39
JRedell
in reply to: hgohel

I'm having similar issue as of late. Completely random crashes that come anywhere from checking email to drawing a pline. I don't know what the heck is going on, but it's driving me F'in crazy.

JRedell, PLS
Erlandsen
Civil3d 2012
Intel Core 2 Quad 2.66GHz
Win7 64bit
Quadro FX1700 (Driver 265.70)
8GB RAM
Message 6 of 39
wfberry
in reply to: JRedell

JR:

 

It appears that you don't have much of a processor and only 4 GB of Ram.  Heck most of your ram is probably used by the time the OS and Civil 3D gets loaded.  This is before a dwg is started.  Win 7 x 64 and Civil 3D 2012 like horsepower and memory.

 

Bill

 

Message 7 of 39
bb
Contributor
in reply to: bb

Interesting, we also have the Quadro FX1700 installed on all three computers.  This driver is certified and guaranteed, but only tested with a single monitor.  We are looking at the expense of updating to another choice, but without any guarantee it will fix this problem, it is a very expensive gamble.  Autocad folks, any thoughts about the odds?  If it is really a graphics card problem, can we get a suggestion for which graphics card would be able to handle the 2013 and 2014 with two monitors?  If I have to spend the money, I'd like to limit the pain and be ready for the next two year.   Are the readers from Autocad able to offer thoughts about whether more RAM would be as likely to help?  If so, how big do we need to go to resolve the issue?  Thanks for the ongoing help and chance for others to also get some help with this problem.

Message 8 of 39
JRedell
in reply to: wfberry

Hmmmm, I never considered a Core 2 Quad to be underpowered. What are you recommending for a processor to run 2012....a i7 920 only? I do agree that more RAM is a necessity, and I've got 8gb on order which should show up this week.

 

I too would like to know what the C3D masters out there say is a proper setup for processor and video card.

JRedell, PLS
Erlandsen
Civil3d 2012
Intel Core 2 Quad 2.66GHz
Win7 64bit
Quadro FX1700 (Driver 265.70)
8GB RAM
Message 9 of 39
darkman257
in reply to: JRedell

I am not the expert but I have the same processor and constantly have outlook, a 30-inch monitor, 7-10 IE explorers, Quickbooks and other programs open and my processor does not go above 20-30%.  I did find out today however that some crashes are being linked not only to undersized video cards but also to too much information on the screen to be refreshed as you pan and zoom.  If you are using contours or tins for a large site, go to the View tab and click on "Level of Detail" under the Views panel.  As you zoom out, the details get cut out in favor of items that you would see at that scale and suppress those you would typically not see.  Conversely it gets better as you zoom on your point of focus.  That too will help resources.  I also found out that Civil 3D does not support multithreading therefore you are under utilizing your processor and there is nothing anyone can do.  Good luck. 

Infrastructure Design Suite 2012 - Premium, Intel Quad Core 2.66 Ghz, 8 GB Ram, Nvidia Quadro FX4800

Dilbert's Salary Theorem: Postulate 1: Knowledge is Power Postulate 2: Time is Money. Power = Work / Time. Since Knowledge = Power,
then Knowledge = Work / Time, and Tme = Money, then Knowledge = Work / Money. Solving for Money, we get: Money = Work / Knowledge.
Thus as Knowledge approaches zero, money approaches infinity, regardless of the amount of work done.
Message 10 of 39
jmcpherson1982
in reply to: bb

I too am having loads of Fatal Errors. While they are sometimes random, they also occur when I attempt to perform specific Tasks. For Example my two biggest problems that are slowing down work flow, I cannot adjust the direction of North without getting a fatal error, and I cannot create a Stepped offset of a feature line without a fatal error. The second one is a very big hinderance when trying to adjust contours in a Surface.

Justin
Dell T1600 Workstation
Windows 7 x64
Intel Xeon E31280 @ 3.50 GHz
24 GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 4000
Civil3D 2013
Message 11 of 39
wfberry
in reply to: jmcpherson1982

We don't adjust North in these parts, it pretty much stays the same.

 

<G>

 

Bill

Message 12 of 39

How are you "adjusting" North?

 

Have your tried a repair or reinstall?

 

Only the Quadro series from Nvidia are certified for 2012. The NVS 300 is described as a "Bushiness" level card. It's possible your problems are due to you're graphics card. Have you tried disabling hardware acceleration?

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 13 of 39
hgohel
in reply to: bb

@bb

 

In your original post you mentioned you had an AMD ATI Radeon 4250, but in the next post you said you have the Quadro FX 1700 (which is certified).  Are you facing the same cursor disappearing and other graphics related issues with the Qudro FX 1700?  I would not have expected that, assuming you have the driver version that is certified, ie. 265.70.  In any case, if you have the Quadro FX 1700, I don't see a need to spend more money on any other graphics hardware, what you have is quite capable.

 

Assuming you tested the other options I suggested earlier, another thing you may want to consider is obtaining Windows updates, and also BIOS and system-specific drivers from your hardware manufacturer.  If you search on "BIOS" you will find some success stories posted by other customers.  Let us know what works for you.

 

BTW, if the card is capable of multiple displays, you can use it without problems.

 

Finally, this thread seems to be digressing with several unrelated topics...please be considerate to the original poster and start new threads for unrelated issues.  Thanks.

Himanshu Gohel
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 14 of 39
jmcpherson1982
in reply to: wfberry

I was adjusting North using the Navigation wheel so the drawing would better fit the paper size. That way North is still North it just poinst somewhere other than up on screen and paper.

Justin
Dell T1600 Workstation
Windows 7 x64
Intel Xeon E31280 @ 3.50 GHz
24 GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 4000
Civil3D 2013
Message 15 of 39

OK. That's another graphic intensive operation. Try using the Dview command to rotate the view. Use the TWist option and enter the angle or rotate it visually based on a few selected objects.

 

Do you have as much problem with Stepped Offset in small drawings as opposed to large?

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 16 of 39

So far it only happens when I am specifically offsetting a feature line with the stepped offset. If I step offset a polyline it works no problem. My department started using feature lines instead of 3D polylines because you can curve a feature line allowing the contour to follow it's real life path say on the curb of a street. Right now we have falen back to 3D polylines but it is frustrating.

Justin
Dell T1600 Workstation
Windows 7 x64
Intel Xeon E31280 @ 3.50 GHz
24 GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 4000
Civil3D 2013
Message 17 of 39


@jmcpherson1982 wrote:

Right now we have falen back to 3D polylines ...


That makes me think it's happening on more than one computer. Are the specs for the other the same as yours?

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 18 of 39

Yes. a guy in another department started using Revit when we made the move to 64-bit and he speced the new workstations. They are the same.

Justin
Dell T1600 Workstation
Windows 7 x64
Intel Xeon E31280 @ 3.50 GHz
24 GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 4000
Civil3D 2013
Message 19 of 39

I can't guarantee I'm right. But unless a reinstall or updating your video drivers helps. I'd say your video card isn't up to working with Civil 3D. It's not certified for vanilla AutoCAD and C3D puts much more of a strain on it. See my other post on that.

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 20 of 39
bb
Contributor
in reply to: hgohel

We do have the same problems on the machines with the 1700 card in both. 

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