Duo or Quad core processor?

[nikoue]

which is the best processor for a new system?
A dual core with high speed processor
or a quad core with lower speed processor

[ACADuser]

Since you didn't list any relevant information I tend to agree that you get what you pay for.

[Sinc]

I'm not completely up-to-date on the latest AMD chips. But in the Intel world, there is some indication that the high-end Core 2 Duo chips will outperform a similarly-priced Core i7 chip for Civil 3D. However, Vista/Win7 really seem to like the quad processors. I would lean toward the Core i7 900-series, particularly the Core i7 920 (which seems to deliver the best bang for the buck right now, except for maybe the Core i5 750). I haven't had a chance to try one myself, but it's also sounding like you can get very similar performance from the cheaper Core i5 750 chip, if you don't care about the Core i5's dual-channel memory architecture making it a bad candidate for future upgrades.

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quuxsoft.com

[Anonymous]

Okay the debate goes on I know have a i core 7 860 w/8 gig and it has 8 threads instead of 4 threads like a intel qx9650 would. With that in tow you realize that there is a variable in 2010 C3D 2009-2010 called whipthread. Check to see what you setting is (sysvariable). I would like to expand this debate as to just what number that should be. It is directly related to how many cores it can work with. I have my whipthread set at 1. According to help it says this. It max's at 15. This is directly related to this discussion, and I hope someone that knows the inner workings of Civil 3D 2010 can explain what each number (1 thru 15) could do for us that have more than 2 cores. The text below is from Express Tools system var info.

Controls whether to use an additional processor to improve the speed of operations such as ZOOM that redraw or regenerate the drawing. WHIPTHREAD has no effect on single processor machines.

0 No multithreaded processing; restricts regeneration and redraw processing to a single processor. This setting restores the behavior of AutoCAD 2000 and previous releases.
1 Regeneration multithreaded processing only; regeneration processing is distributed across two processors on a multiprocessor machine.
2 Redraw multithreaded processing only; redraw processing is distributed across two processors on a multiprocessor machine.
3 Regeneration and redraw multithreaded processing; regeneration and redraw processing is distributed across two processors on a multiprocessor machine.

When multithreaded processing is used for redraw operations (value 2 or 3), the order of objects specified with the DRAWORDER command is not guaranteed to be preserved for display but is preserved for plotting.

Other trivia for setups:
With Win 7 32 RC I have been testing 8 gig memory with the i core 7 860 (~$260 and faster than a 920) is extremely fast. It is dual channel memory dependent, but it has 8 threads instead of 4 from former intel qx9650 I had. I'm not sure how many threads the 920 & up have. So, with so many options with processors and 32 bit vs 64 bit OS's. I do know as of know that Win 7 RC and Autocad C3D 2010 with all updates just fly's. It can run out of memory though when you insert PDF'S in a heartbeat. Edited by: doggarn1950 on Sep 29, 2009 8:50 AM

[ACADuser]

>"....high-end Core 2 Duo chips will outperform a similarly-priced Core i7 chip for Civil 3D."

I agree you can get a faster Core 2 processor for close to the same cost as a slower Core i7. For others who may not know, the Core i7 is a quad core whereas the Core 2 is dual. The tradeoff is you are only geting 2 cores vs 4 for a faster processor. If you look at the cost of (2) high-end Core 2 processors vs (1) Core i7 that is comparable in performance you can save hundreds of dollars by going with the Core i7.

Your comments are right on target with everything that I have read. It's really great to have intelligent people like yourself here on the fourums.

[Sinc]

How did you determine that WHIPTHREAD can go up to 15?

From what I can tell, the only valid values are from 0 to 3. You can set it to 1 to turn on the feature for regens, to 2 to turn it on for redraws, or to 3 to turn it on for both regens and redraws. I would probably just leave it at its default value of 1, or 3 if you think you might want that (I'm not sure why - redraws are pretty fast as it is). It seems like the only other options - 0 or 2 - would slow things down, if you notice any difference at all.

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quuxsoft.com

[Anonymous]

Hi Sinc
Well, that is exactly what I found, but being curious I typed in numbers up to 15 before it wouldn't take any higher number. So, methinks that Autodesk is not letting all the cats out of the bag. Just so happens that I got a call from Autodesk a fellow by the name of Luke and he said he would ask the design team why it took those other numbers. I can't tell any difference so far. Both 1 and 15 yielded cpu up to 78% all 4 threads when doing 3d orbit on our Q6600 we are using right now. So, maybe it doesn't matter, but I didn't test through another other object type of updates yet. I was hoping that they might have been figuring on more than 2 cores or 4 threads with the new processors coming out now. I thought that you might have gotten some inside development tools that explained how to utilize more than 2 cores which is on topic.

MJP Edited by: doggarn1950 on Sep 29, 2009 2:46 PM

[Sinc]

Sometimes you can set flags like that, and they are simply ignored, because nothing in the program uses them.

Unfortunately, C3D will not make much use of multiple cores, in any case, until Autodesk changes the internal programming. There are pieces of core Autocad that can use multiple cores, but I don't think there's anything in C3D itself that makes direct use of multiple cores. Until Autodesk changes that, the number of cores is not very important, and raw CPU speed is more important. That's the primary reason why the high-end Core 2 Duos can end up outperforming the low-end Core i7 chips for Civil 3D, despite the new memory architecture we have with the i7 chips.

That being said, the Windows OS knows how to make use of multiple cores. So you can get a benefit from having a quad-core system, even though C3D itself will mostly be hitting only one core at 100%. Vista itself seems to run smoother on a quad-core system.

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quuxsoft.com

[rhdins]

Get a quad core. A dual core might out perform a quad core running acad, but that's assuming that you aren't doing anything else on your computer. If you plan on running other programs at the same time as C3D, then go with the quad.

[Anonymous]

Quad - only if your running 64-bit OS. If not, it doesn't really matter.

[Sinc]

It is also probably worth mentioning that while the high-end Core 2 Duos will outperform the low-end Core i7's, the difference is pretty minimal. If the high-end Core 2 Duos ran C3D significantly faster, it might be a different story. But as it is, I tend to favor the quad-core systems, just because Windows seems to run so much smoother with quad-core systems. So even though a high-end Core 2 Duo might perform better on benchmark tests than a low-end Core i7, you might see better "perceived performance" with the Core i7. And the "perceived performance" is the thing that's most critical.

If you're upgrading an existing Core 2 system, a high-end Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad chip might be the best choice. This might also be a good choice if you have one of the high-end Pentium D systems, and your MOBO is new enough that it can also handle the high-end Core 2 chips. But for a new system, I'd go with the Core i7 920 (or maybe Core i5 750), unless you are interested in something even more-powerful (such as the high-end Core i7 chips).

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quuxsoft.com

[bb_idea]

>>Well, that is exactly what I found, but being curious I typed in numbers up to 15 before it wouldn't take any higher number<<

I think they likely use tinyint as the data class for this flag.

tinyint is 4 bits which equates to 16 distinct values (0-15)

bb_idea