Description Keys not scaling properly upon point insertion

[Anonymous]

I am having alot of trouble with my description keys.  We have our description key file  set up and when we insert them into a drawing they come in the size of the drawing. For example, an iron pipe comes in 20 times to size it should, stations come in very large also.  We are also having trouble with our trees. The scaling is way off.  Not sure if it is about the set up of our drawing or what it is but I have had no luck solving this problem and need anyones help.  We are using Civil 3d 2009.  I have unchecked "use drawing scale" and they come in small but when I bring the points into a viewport, the symbols are still small.  I have looked at the help menus, read and reread a book I purchased, read all the online help manuals that come with 3d.  Any help is greatly appreciated.

I have attached a pdf of the points for my new drawing for your viewing.

[mathewkol]

Tough to say.  Attach your DWG and point file.

[Anonymous]

It is against company policy to send entire dwg so i deleted alot of points to just include the points that are causing the issue.  I am also attaching a copy of our description key list for you to look at.  Thank you so much for helping me with this matter.  If this is not what you are looking for let me know.

[mathewkol]

There are a couple things wrong with many of your desc keys.  I'm going to pick on the "ash" key and you can figure out the rest.

Raw Desc = "ash 4"

1. You're attempting to scale by PARAMETER 2.  4 is PARAMETER 1.
2. You have "Use drawing scale" set.  This may or may not be the correct thing to do depending on the situation, but your situation, I believe would benefit with this unchecked.  In most cases I've seen, this should be unchecked.  The symbol gets scaled by this, in addition to PARAMETER 1, in addition to the viewport scale since the point style also has "Use drawing scale" checked.

[Anonymous]

That worked. 

But I have another question that our surveyer keeps asking, when I scaled the symbols like you told me, how am I to know that the symbol is the right size in a 20 scale dwg?  For example, I just scaled the maple trees the way you told me to scale the ash, however when i go into our desc key file and insert a block of a tree from that file at a 20 scale the inserted symbol is bigger than the one the description key inserts.  So my 6" maple that was inserted from the descr keys is smaller than if you insert just a block of the same symbol at the dwg scale.  which symbol represents the correct size?  We are in the process of switching from LDD to Civil, so old habits die hard and change is very hard.

So we are having a hard time believing which size of the symbol is true, some say the one brought from a inserted block is the correct size and not the size of the symbol that the descr. keys bring in.

confusing i know but i am curious to know your thoughts.

Thanks Matt.

[mathewkol]

The "correct" size is the one you want to be correct.  In your situation, that is probably the one inserted from a block.  There are generally 2 options when talking about symbol size in Civil 3D.

1. Should they be annotative?
2. Should they be static?

 Annotative: this is like Civil 3d labels.  You know how they size themselves to match the viewport scale?  You set up the style as 1/8 inch and Civil 3d scales them accordingly in the viewport?  This is annotative behavior and you can get this with point styles.  To get this behavior, edit your point style and set the Size option to "Use drawing scale".  Your is set this way already.

What's not set correctly in your file is the "Inches" value.  This is not block scale!  Yours is set to 0.1 inch.  Insert the block as you normally would for a scale of 1"=20' and measure it from bottom to top, then multiply this number by 20 and place this number in the "Inches" value below.

If you're still having trouble figuring out what I'm saying, simply edit that Inches value until the symbol scales correctly.

Static: no weird scaling, just like non-annotative blocks.  Set your size option to Fixed scale and type in the desired block scale.

Sometimes you want annotative behavior, like if the symbols are just pictorial.  Manholes, catch basins are generally pictorial.  You insert the block at a scale that looks good for the desired plot scale.

Sometimes you want them static.  If you want your trees to be "real" size, you don't want this annotative behavior.

Your choice. But in my experience, very few are not annotative.

[Anonymous]

Hi Matt, 

Thanks so much for helping out.  I have another question.  I am trying to make our template correct with the sizing issue with the description keys but I am having trouble with the CTREE descr. key. I am trying the method you stated about the dtree (ash 4) issue and I am not having much luck at all.  I am guessing that the procedure is the same for this ctree key but I can not figure it out.  You can see the description key from the jpeg i made of our descr keys.  I can send you points if you need the also.  when I one ctree all the trees become that same size and they are all different sizes just like the dtree key.

Any help is greatly appreciated.