Data reference workflow question

[Anonymous]

I created a drawing containing the alignments and design profiles for a road
network. I created data shorcuts to all the alignments. I have a sewer
drawing that contains the sanitary sewer network for the project with data
references to all the road alignments. I want to show the sewers in road
profiles for design purposes. What would be the workflow here?

[Anonymous]

I understand about the visual distortion, that is
not an issue.

However, when running interference checks, does the
tool not look at the true crossing vs. where they cross the road centerline? As
long as the interference check is giving the true clearance I'm not so concerned
about how they show up in the road profile.

[Anonymous]

from a few post up:

size=2>******************************************************me**********************************

you sure you selected the design profiles when you created the xml file?

Does the prospector indicate the design file did not emerge?

size=2>****************************************************you**********************************

I didn't use XML. I used the Import from Land Desktop tool for both the

roads and pipes. In my sewer drawing I created references to the road

alignments I then created references to the road design profiles but they

are not available when I create a profile view, nor do they show up in

prospector.

Does this workflow not work?

************************************************************

I'm trying to ascertain how you created the Data
Short cut xml files that you are trying to create references for and are not
seeing anything in the prospector. Your response made me think we were talking
about two different things?

After importing the LDT data are you creating data
shortcuts by selecting the civil3d objects and exporting to a file (that is an
xml file) Best practices guide suggest creating an individual DS file per
alignment, surface, pipe network , et al. 

 Example alignment and profiles: create data
shortcut from object in drawing>>> select alignment "A" and all the
profile grade lines that you require referencing. then in the DS dialog
>>> export DS to file.

Then in the file you desire the reference in the DS
dialog>>> import DS from file <select the xml file for alignment "A"
you created in the above step. create the reference for alignment "A". Then
create the profile vies for the data refed alignment (note required surfaces
need to be data refed to for this to work) then reference the profile grade
lines.

are you doing something like this?

[Anonymous]

Interference checks will check where the pipes actually cross, regardless of alignment orientation.

[Anonymous]

I think there is a disparity between the workflow I
have in 2010 and yours. Once I import my alignments I then create shortcuts. In
C3D 2010 you set a shortcut folder for a project and set it current. When
creating the shortcuts, all alignments and profiles in the current drawing are
available and the shortcuts can be created for all of them at once, including
their associated profiles. There is no export to XML required as the software
handles that for you.

To create a reference to a shortcut in another
drawing, set the shortcut folder current and all the shortcuts become available.
Just pick the shortcuts you want to reference and they come into the drawing.
There is no import or export of XML required. The software handles all of that
behind the scenes.

Does this clarify things
Joe?

[Anonymous]

That's very important. So getting back to the workflow, it should not be
necessary to create pipe alignments for that reason. Aside from the
intersection issues, what other problems have you had with using road
alignments? We have never resorted to creating sewer alignments in the past
with LDT.

[Anonymous]

Can't answer your question as we have never used road alignments to profile pipe networks... we always create separate pipe run alignments for profiling.
Another problem with using road alignments is offsite runs. When pipes leave the roadway and head cross country to an existing system, or perhaps a pond or wastewater treatment plant, or a storm outfall, a separate pipe alignment comes in very handy.

[Anonymous]

>Another problem with using road alignments is offsite runs. When pipes
leave the roadway and head cross country to an existing system, or perhaps a
pond or wastewater treatment plant, or a storm outfall, a separate pipe
alignment comes in very handy.

No question about that..you can't do it any other
way. I'd really like to get away from seperate pipe alignments along roads
however. I'm hoping there is a way to make this workflow a workflow but I'm
having doubts now.

In Geopak we can toggle a pipe run to use either a
road alignment or use the center of the pipe. The software automatically
stations and profiles the pipes so there is no need to create
alignments unless you tell it to. Profiles and stationing are dynamic to
horizontal to the pipe run. When the toggle is changed to use an alignment
the profile and annotation update to the new stationing. It also can use
profiles in references.

[Anonymous]

Now I know how Sisyphus felt <G> Ok I'll
drop any mention of xml files.

Did you select the objects you desired to share? As
per my crayon explanation od 2010 DS by JM above.

Joe

[Anonymous]

Yes Joe. I selected the objects via the list in the
Create Shortcuts dialogue and I can create data references to the
shortcuts.

Something is not behaving with regard
to profile shortcuts. I can create references to some profiles but not
others. I was able to create a profile view with design profile for one of the
streets, but for most other streets I cannot create a Data reference to the
profile. I can see this is not going to be easily resolved via the forum so I'll
have to do some troubleshooting post a support request if I can't get it
figured out.

Thanks for trying.

[Anonymous]

So far using the Import from Land Desktop tool for sewer pipes is a time
consuming process. Even with the default settings set to use sewer styles
and parts, the pipe networks come in as storm sewer with null manholes. Also
the manholes get duplicated when multiple pipe runs share a common manhole.
Thus I have to go through the entire network deleting the duplicate
manholes, changing the network type for each pipe run to sewer and swapping
out each manhole. What a PITA.

[Anonymous]

Well after all this effort I find out that the pipes come in on multiple
networks and cannot be joined up. The process is futile.

[Anonymous]

Good luck. And let us know how it turns
out

[Anonymous]

Neil -

If you can find a contractor willing to paid for installation of .pipe
based on the length along the alignment...otherwise I would always label
true length.

Matthew Anderson, PE



neilw wrote:
> This raises another question: when a pipe run is drawn on a road
> profile, does the pipe length and slope reflect it's true length or
> it's projected length along the road alignment?
>
> I haven't worked enough with pipes enough to know about these issues.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't want them labeled any other way. That is why I was concerned and
asked the question.



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[Anonymous]

Neil:

You've gone this far, I would go ahead and do the xml-OUT and the xml-IN and
get them in the common Network. I'm sure you have seen the work-a-round for
that in this NG. It has be some time since I did therefore, I am not the
one to explain it.

Bill

"neilw" wrote in message
news:6335170@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well after all this effort I find out that the pipes come in on multiple
networks and cannot be joined up. The process is futile.

[Anonymous]

Hi Bill,

I wasn't aware of that workaround. It didn't show up when I searched the NG
for a solution to this problem yesterday. I'll take another look.

Thanks,

Neil



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[Anonymous]

Neil:

I hope I am not sending you on a wild goose chase. As I recall it goes
something like this.
You have 3 Pipe Networks.
Network A
Network B
Network C

You want to use Network A, so you xml out Network B and Network C.
Change the two xml files to Network A in both of these files.
Delete Networks B and C in the drawing file.

Import these two xml files back in.

Hopefully one our two Jeffs or Matts will come on line pretty quick and
straighten me out.

Bill

I am sure I don't have to tell you to work in a backup file.


"neilw" wrote in message
news:6335501@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Bill,

I wasn't aware of that workaround. It didn't show up when I searched the NG
for a solution to this problem yesterday. I'll take another look.

Thanks,

Neil



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[Anonymous]

Neil:
Did you get the pipe networks to merge?
I have been involved in getting a bid package to my state government's
office.

Bill

[Anonymous]

I haven't gotten back to the project Bill.

There are other issues I need to resolve such as getting the pipes to come
in as sewer parts and the null manhole thing. The amount of work is almost
as much as recreating it from scratch if I can't get those issues resolved.



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[Anonymous]

Yes, we have all been there in one respect or another.

Bill