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NeilSpoon
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎02-12-2012
Message 1 of 14 (395 Views)

Calling all the Brits

395 Views, 13 Replies
03-06-2012 07:23 AM

I was wondering.....

 

How many Brits are on these boards? I am asking because my company (Capita Symonds) has allowed us to move from Bentley MX to C3D (or at least run it side by side for now). It appears Capita is setting itself up to be BIM-ready, though it seems it is up to the individual offices to push for a change in software and organise the appropriate training etc.

 

To my knowledge, the vast majority of British consultants are still using MX and there seems to be a reluctance to change ("we cant change because everybody else is using MX", etc). Now that the British government is keen on rolling out the BIM approach, things might finally change.

 

Because of this, I pushed for C3D to replace MX, mainly because I hate working with MX and the advantages of C3D are obvious, let alone the scope for development etc (the only real advantage of MX is the input file in my eyes). I still have a hard time trying to convince some of my colleagues though, mainly because of the steep learning curve and the more cumbersome approach to get a junction designed.

 

So my question is this: Are there any Brits here who made the change? If so, how did it pan out? Are you in the process of changing? Are you considering changing? etc. I'd like you to share your experiences here, as I would be interested to know how many in Britain actually use C3D and how they are finding it, especially compared to MX.

 

Feel free to contribute even if you are not from the UK.

 

Cheers :smileyhappy:

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neilyj
Posts: 3,670
Registered: ‎08-01-2008
Message 2 of 14 (390 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

03-06-2012 07:47 AM in reply to: NeilSpoon

Have you visited www.civil3dukie.com??

 

I haven't used MX since it was called MOSS (v10.4 running under Windows NT 4.0, I recall) and have used LSS for volumetric calculations for many years (I still do on occasions because C3D is very cumbersome in volumetrics compared to LSS - at least for the work I do).

 

However I use C3D for windfarm development/tendering work and it's very good for this (when it doesn't crash)

neilyj
(No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)


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Active Contributor
NeilSpoon
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎02-12-2012
Message 3 of 14 (387 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

03-06-2012 07:51 AM in reply to: neilyj

Yeah I have looked at Civil3dUKIE.com but it is relatively dead, with the last post dating 30-jan-2012. So I thought I'd get a better response here. :smileyhappy:

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neilyj
Posts: 3,670
Registered: ‎08-01-2008
Message 4 of 14 (385 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

03-06-2012 07:56 AM in reply to: NeilSpoon

Yes - I'm not sure what's happening with C3DUKIE - I'm a moderator on that board and there was a constant battle against spammers.

 

This forum is very useful and queries get answered very quickly usually.

neilyj
(No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)


IDSP Premium 2015 (mainly Civil 3D 2015 UKIE & Infraworks with some limited 3ds Max Design)
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Active Member
Hasslebonk
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎05-30-2012
Message 5 of 14 (293 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

08-15-2012 04:00 PM in reply to: NeilSpoon

I am in the same position as the OP and carried out a comparison between MX & Civil 3D for calculating cut and fill on a large site (90ha).

 

I put a 3D topo into MX and then created various proposed strings, added a boundary and got a cut & fill balance for the site. To test against Civil 3D I exported the 3D topo from MX as a poly face mesh and created a surface in Civil 3D from it. Then I exported the proposed strings as 3D polylines & created a proposed surface (both surfaces trimmed to boundary exported from MX). However when I did a volume calc in Civil 3D from a comparison surface I got figure that was over 5000m3 different from MX. Why?

 

It has always been my understanding that MX will produce a more accurate figure - is this assumption correct? Do both software use triangulation to calculate volume?

 

In exploring reasons for the difference I took a single building slab at a constant elevation and calculated cut & fill in both software (trimmed to same boundary around slab). The volume from Civil 3D was less in cut by 10m3. As I have used the same topo (exported from MX for consistancy), 3D polys (with same no of vertices) and boundaries I'm at a loss to explain how a slab can produce different results?

 

With the current UK bias toward MX this difference will reflect poorly on Civil 3D if I show to bosses without a rationale. Can Civil 3D figure be trusted?

 

Cheers for any guidance.

 

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wfberry
Posts: 1,748
Registered: ‎09-05-2006
Message 6 of 14 (264 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

08-16-2012 05:22 AM in reply to: Hasslebonk

Just a thought here.  5000 CM as compared to what?  Compared to 1 Million or 10,000. 

 

Bill

 

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BrianHailey
Posts: 2,749
Registered: ‎04-27-2005
Message 7 of 14 (257 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

08-16-2012 05:53 AM in reply to: Hasslebonk

They are different, yes. Is one right and the other wrong? No. They are simply differently wrong. How do you know the MX number is right? How much dirt are you moving? If you are calculating this to more than 2 significant digits you're kidding yourself (I personally think 1.5 significant digits is probably better). In other words, if you have 1,000,000 m3 cut and 999,000 m3 fill, it's balanced. I would even say if you had 950,000 m3 fill it's balanced and that's a difference of 50,000 m3.

 

As far as the number being calculated differently, export the two surfaces from MX to a LandXML file, bring that into C3D and then compare the difference. This will give you more of an "Apples to apples" type of comparison.

 

Hope this helps

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neilyj
Posts: 3,670
Registered: ‎08-01-2008
Message 8 of 14 (234 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

08-16-2012 08:12 AM in reply to: Hasslebonk

As Brian Hailey pointed out, how do you know that MX is correct??

 

I took a C3D surface, extracted the traingles and wblocked them to a dxf which I then imported into LSS and  the results are attached - no difference

 


wheats77 wrote:
To test against Civil 3D I exported the 3D topo from MX as a poly face mesh and created a surface in Civil 3D from it.

- Did you do a volume calc from the polyface mesh - what did it show compared to the 3d polylines

neilyj
(No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)


IDSP Premium 2015 (mainly Civil 3D 2015 UKIE & Infraworks with some limited 3ds Max Design)
Win 7 Pro x64, 240Gb SSD, 1Tb HDD
32Gb Ram Intel Xeon CPU E5-2650 v2 @ 2.6GHz (32 CPUs), ~2.6GHz
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neilyj
Posts: 3,670
Registered: ‎08-01-2008
Message 9 of 14 (235 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

08-16-2012 08:12 AM in reply to: Hasslebonk

As Brian Hailey pointed out, how do you know that MX is correct??

 

I took a C3D surface, extracted the traingles and wblocked them to a dxf which I then imported into LSS and  the results are attached - no difference

 


wheats77 wrote:
To test against Civil 3D I exported the 3D topo from MX as a poly face mesh and created a surface in Civil 3D from it.

- Did you do a volume calc from the polyface mesh - what did it show compared to the 3d polylines

neilyj
(No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)


IDSP Premium 2015 (mainly Civil 3D 2015 UKIE & Infraworks with some limited 3ds Max Design)
Win 7 Pro x64, 240Gb SSD, 1Tb HDD
32Gb Ram Intel Xeon CPU E5-2650 v2 @ 2.6GHz (32 CPUs), ~2.6GHz
NVIDIA Quadro K4000, Dual 27" Monitor, Dell T5610
Active Member
Hasslebonk
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎05-30-2012
Message 10 of 14 (216 Views)

Re: Calling all the Brits

08-16-2012 08:59 AM in reply to: neilyj

Chaps thanks for the response.

 

When i posted last night i was away form the office so guessed some figures slightly wrong. The Phase 1 site im looking at is actually 53626m2. MX gives a balance of fill @ 15070m3. Civil 3D gives a balance of fill @ 26863m3.

The difference of 12000m3 is large for this site.

 

The site is for a proposed zoo extension and as such the proposed surface is very complicated. Im assuming at this stage that the difference is because I need to spend time in Civil 3D differentiating contours from breaklines and other general features like retaining walls. Does anyone have a good link for explaining surface definitions as im new to Civil 3D?

 

Initially i wanted a quick comparision by creating a C3D surface from all the 3D polys but obviously i need to spend more time creating a surface.

 

 

 

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