I am trying to figure out how many DOTs use AutoCAD, plain or C3D. It appears that almost all state DOTs are using Microstation to the point I am worried I am getting left behind using C3D exclusively. The problem is that Microstation with all the bells and whistles is very expensive even before talking about training costs and learning curve. I find that my private clients use AutoCAD products, but I am wondering about just the DOTs, federal, state, and local.
Pay the piper and get back on subscription! If you boss won't pay the price then everytime you FE tell him that was fixed..... with a service pack for 2011...... 😉
I didn't realize dragging a grading region grip or adding a transition was stupid. Now I know what's been my problem all along!
I apologize for high-jacking this thread. Please speak to the grading stability in the following thread.
-Tucker
To Answer PDX271 "
"How long ago was the benckmark test?"
It may have been 2 to 3 yrs ago, Both GEOPAK and InRoads far outscored C3D... Interestingly as far as you think C3D has come in those 3 yrs, the last Benchmark where they competed by themselves there score was virtually the same.
If you search hard enough on the web you can find this information
Bill...Been busy, sorry I missed you at the MNDOT Survey Conference up here iat breezy Point... Im sure you would have liked to see my Civil select series 3 preview... Incidently, Microstation SS3 was released yesterday, I know you all were looking forward to working with your 2012 C3D drawings in a stable platform (Microstation)
All the best
Mike Barkasi
Bentley Civil
No offense intended but I take exception to your comment about grading. Apparently they work well for some but not others. I don't think it is due to stupidity on the part of the users. Gradings still have problems.
Is this deja vu? Starting to remind me of Eagle point a few years ago! Mike the light at the end of the tunnel is actually the light on the front of the C3D locomotive!
Mike even if worst case Bentley is able to hold on to the remaining DOT market we still have just about everything else in the Government field! Circle the wagons Mike! In a couple weeks we move the bar up again with 2013! Competition is good, fair competition is better!
How fast can you design an intersection?
Still havn't answer my "how many weeks/months of training is necessary!", how many local colleges teach Geopak.... so many foolish questions we have!
Bill Neuhauser P.E.
Intersection using new civil cells... about 15 seconds... send me you email Ill send you a video.
Maybe you want to talk parking lots... or storm basins... site design in general, and hey surveyors up keep telling me C3D is not handling us survey feet correctly.. (Sinc can you comment ?)...
And Bill your leaving out all the major engineering firms in the country using our software on every major infrastructure project... what software was really used for Zoo Park ?
Mike
Nice marketing... Funny no road designs in the "Lead the way marketing video"
Will this mean yet another file format change for C3D? MicroStation SS3 uses the same V8 format put in place 12 years ago.
Of those major engineering firms how many support both Geopak and Civil 3D? The real question should be why? I don't hear anyone running Word and also WordPerfect? Why support and pay for two platforms that do the same thing?
Not because they want to! ITS BECAUSE THEY ARE FORCED TO! We have plenty of huge international engineering firms in the state that run both and only because they want the lucrative DOT projects! PERIOD! I'm sure a few are only going to support one, but that is the exception to the rule and not the rule...
http://www.tcbmag.com/factfinder/bigbook/engineeringfirms-top25.aspx
What new intersection tool was that you say you have that finally does something we've been doing for years? And how many DOTs are using it? I wonder "How many months of training?" I heard it was easy stuff to learn.......
Bill Neuhauser P.E.
Thats a handy list... I reconize most of the companies on it... Are you sure you want to speak for them?
A better analogy woul be to say many companies use Access and Oracle...because Access might be handy to use on a local level it is certainly not practical to try to use it on an enterprise level... this is not to say Oracle couldnt be used for the smaller projects, but more people have access to Access....
Speaking of Databases... Did you know you can connect directly to the intelligent information in a DGN through Oracle or Access... even Excel... pretty cool Pipe netwarks, map data, corridor components survey features etc... all opened directly from the DGN from a database, spreadsheet or word document!
🙂
@Anonymous wrote:Nice marketing... Funny no road designs in the "Lead the way marketing video"
Will this mean yet another file format change for C3D? MicroStation SS3 uses the same V8 format put in place 12 years ago.
Yep...!!!
neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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12 year old file format? No wonder DGNs are crap. If you're not moving forward, you're geting left behind in the wake of Autodesk's dust!!!
The Format V8 has not changed however the underpinnings certainly have moved forward... Autodesk could choose to keep the same format however there business model forcing upgrades is profitable for them, this at the expense of the pain caused in the consulting business by the disruptions caused by such format changes.
To charactorize DGN as you did shows you are not familiar with DGN. Anyone familiar with both formats would agree DGN is most stable. In short DGN does not corrupt and in many cases corrupted DWG files can be salvaged by opening them in MicroStation (though now that we use tru DWG libraries this may not work).
Regards
Mike
The annual Civil 3D format incompatibility with previous versions is a major pain (as is the 3 year dwg format cycle although a bit less painful).
I often think that Autodesk is trying to push the boundaries of the software capabilities without getting a stable core product e.g. the service pack update to Civil 3D 2012 broke the DRIVE command and it's still not fixed.
I do think that Civil 3D is a great product when it behaves and an utter pig when it doesn't....
neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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I have to say, as Mike B. notes, Microstation on it's own is quite stable. However that may not apply to the vertical apps. I crash Power Civil more than C3D. Depending on what you are doing it can be VERY unstable and honestly it has been rather inefficient in that regard. I don't have the road modeling tools in InRoads and Geopak but I expect that those products are no better when using the site tools which are common to Power Civil.
Also, Bentley doesn't offer service packs to fix bugs. They only offer the next version, which is no help if you are not on their subscription program (which is more expensive as well).
@Anonymous wrote:I have to say, as Mike B. notes, Microstation on it's own is quite stable. However that may not apply to the vertical apps. I crash Power Civil more than C3D. Depending on what you are doing it can be VERY unstable and honestly it has been rather inefficient in that regard. I don't have the road modeling tools in InRoads and Geopak but I expect that those products are no better when using the site tools which are common to Power Civil.
Also, Bentley doesn't offer service packs to fix bugs. They only offer the next version, which is no help if you are not on their subscription program (which is more expensive as well).
See my comment re the DRIVE command - broken after service pack and not fixed yet......Autodesk are too busy faffing around with Mac (!) versions of their software and "all singing all dancing" BIM software to produce a decent base product.
neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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You do realize you're all starting to sound like that kid on your youth hockey team who would walk around as if he was the next Gretzky even though the only reason he made the team was because his dad was the coach... in others words your acting like a bunch of 5 year olds.
I'm sure both programs have their pluses and minuses. I'm sure some companies find one of them to fit their needs more than the other. Having no experience with Microstation or any other of its' gazillion add-ons (that's my personal issue with it. Why would I purchase 4 or 5 civil design software packs when I can purchase one) I still start to cringe whenever that rare occurrence comes up and I have to import a DGN file from someone else. Again, this is more do to my lack of knowledge than anything... I mean seriously, what the heck does level 23 mean?
And lastly, Mike, what are you even doing here. Not only do I think it's pathetic you're engaging in banter within a C3D forum I also find it very unprofessional.
Just my $0.02.... now can we move onto a more important subject like the fact the Brewers are going to win it all this year!
I see nothing wrong with having a person that is knowledgeable about Bentley products participate in a forum that is discussing Bentley products, as long as it is done in a cordial and respectful manner. It is obvious that some here are basing their opinions on old information (i.e. Microstation dgn's being limited to 63 levels) or on hearsay, so that input is certainly helpful.
The discussion can be passionate and controversial but the insults and boasting is unprofessional.
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