The new rendering engine in 2011 is a failure

[jmcintyre]

I have a small project where the model is around 1Mb. Renders fine in 2011 at low res, and takes around 10 minutes (same as 2009). But when I crank it up to 4000x2800 it takes about 8 hours to get through the final gather, then crashes. I've rendered the same file in 2009 at the high res in 2 hours, no problems, so there's nothing wrong with the file.
At first it crashed after 4 hours in 2011, then I increased the RAM allocation in the Rpref palette to 6Gb and it crashed after 8 hours. This is a really small file and it shouldn't take so long or be such a drama to get a high res image.

Hardware - 2xdual xeon 2.33Mhz, Win XP64 SP2, 8 Gb RAM, Nvidia quadro FX1500 with certified driver. Loads of free spae on the hard drive, 2Gb page file.

[KathyMoffa]

Well, that's less than thrilling news! Should we expect that fix in Update 2, or ACA 2012? I was just planning to install 2011 today, but not so excited now!

[Anonymous]

Honestly, without a CAD file from the OP and testing by others of the
reported problem, and possible solutions or a real bug-report, you might
want to re-think that.

Simply posting here with no detail or backup does not trigger any bug-fix at
autodesk for any product.

--
Dean Saadallah
http://LTisACAD.blogspot.com
--

[jmcintyre]

I tried Dean, but the resulting zip file is too big to post. I even tried in the 'customer file (attachments)' but was told it's too big. Interestingly the ground floor file is around 700k and the upper floor is 200k, but when I bind the upper floor for etransmittal the cad file is 1.4Mb. The textures then bring it up to 4Mb, let alone the RPCs (which I don't think I'm allowed to distribute).
I was hoping someone from Adesk would read the post and give me an email address to send it to. Attached is the resulting image. ACA doesn't crash itself, just the render engine, which still reports it is xx% through processing. I can save the file off as-is and Task manager also tells me the CPUs aren't being used.

[JayMoore]

Are you on subscription? If so are you not able to log something in the sub members site?

Thanks
Jay

[jmcintyre]

Jay, have you tried rendering in 2011 at high res? I'd like to optomistically think I'm just doing something wrong.
I've tried the subscription site, but they don't even have my 2011 listed there so I can't register the problem. Had the licence registered for a week and a half. Also, there's no option to upload a file, so it is of no use. I also note (with humour) that I posted an issue on the 3rd of May 2008 about tripple sliding doors. That issue is still open.

[sam.chan]

Hi,
It would be great if you would send me a simplified dataset. We will look into that.
Thank you for your time and report.
Sam

[Anonymous]

I have the same problem with similar system specs. Low res ok, hi res gives up during final gather. My scene is just an exterior with sun&sky illumination only. I had this trouble with 2010, too, but I attributed it to lack of RAM. Now I'm on 2011 with 8GB and I should be good to go. Good luck working with Adesk. Next option I could try is to render separate regions and then assemble.
Hardware - 2xdual xeon, Win 7x64, 8 Gb RAM, Nvidia quadro FX580 with certified driver

[jmcintyre]

I sent them the file and textures a couple of days ago. No word back yet.

[sam.chan]

Hi,
It does not seem to work work well when using materials with high resolution. Currently the workaround, which you might have already known, is to use lower resolution such as 1024x768. (James has kindly explained to me in a separate email that the high resolution is needed for his works). For other, does the lower resolution meet your business need?) If not would you please give me an example or two when/why you will need that?
Thanks,
Sam

[Anonymous]

Sam firstly thanks for particpating here in the NG.
when you suggest lower resolution 1024x768 do you mean which texture sizes
to assign or the finished image. My little experience tells me 1024 is very
small for decent image. I usually go for 1600x1200 which is only just
acceptable on my cheaper residential images only because any higher would
crash.
Any further help, updates, tips etc would be much appreciated (mostly
updates to the program - reallly happy with the idea of rendering inside
ACA).


wrote in message
news:6376124@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi,
It does not seem to work work well when using materials with high
resolution. Currently the workaround, which you might have already known,
is to use lower resolution such as 1024x768. (James has kindly explained to
me in a separate email that the high resolution is needed for his works).
For other, does the lower resolution meet your business need?) If not
would you please give me an example or two when/why you will need that?
Thanks,
Sam

[KathyMoffa]

Sam,

My thanks also for looking into the problem with rendering in 2011.

I have not installed 2011 yet, precisely because of this report, so I haven't tested the various settings to see which ones are involved in the problem. I have never cranked up the output size to the 4000x2800 J Mcintyre initially reported. However, the suggested 1024x768 would be quite a step backwards from 2010 and earlier, as like Nathan, I normally render my finals at 1600x1200. Do the presets (Low, Medium, High and Presentation) also fall into these new limitations of the rendering engine? Also, what about Final Gather and Rays, or Global Illumination? Is it output size only that is compromised in the new version, or are or other settings as the above also involved?

Kathy Moffa

[jmcintyre]

I rendered the file in 2009 in 2 hours no problems at high res. Open the file and tried rendering it at the same resolution and it crashes during final gather. There is something definately wrong. The highest quality texture I used was around 1000x1000 and was not from the new high-res material library (I didn't have those when I created the file). It's not a big file, only 1.5Mb so it should work, but it doesn't.

If you print a 1600x1200 image at 300 dpi, the print size is quite small.

[sam.chan]

Hi Kathy, James, and Nathan.

Thank you very much for your comments. I have logged a request against this and hopefully the issue will be addressed shortly.
The 1024x768 was referred to the output size. Note that the suggestion was 1024x768 but going up to 1600x1200 might still be okie without problem. During the investigation I notice 2010 has similar issue when rendering at high resolution; if you did not encounter this issue when rendering at 1600x1200 in 2010, the chance is you will also render fine in 2011. A possible solution I previously thought was to adjust the “memory limit” to a larger value; unfortunately this does not resolve the issue when the output size is 4000x2800. I will continue to monitor and share to the forum if I find any other alternative.

Thanks again.
Sam

[jmcintyre]

Thanks for your efforts Sam, but even 1600x1200 is only adequate for printing at post-card size in my opinion. Until this is rectified 2010 and 2011 are unusable for me.

[jmcintyre]

It seems Dean, that posting here does in fact trigger a bug fix.

[Tallans422]

I've been meaning to ask about this topic also. My company produces renderings that are only 1024x768, default lighting, very basic & with 2009 these renderings would take two minutes or less. Of course everyone loves this because it causes very little disruption to the day & individuals can move onto the next project quickly. With 2011 attempting to use the same settings (1024x768, default lighting) produces a very dark image in 2-3X the amount of time... What happened? I have updated our templates to use some or the RENDEREXPOSURE settings which get the image close to what we were providing before, but still washed out. We're looking to upgrade to HP workstations soon so I imagine with the right specs this issue will not be apparent anymore, but in the meantime can anyone educate me on what exactly changed with the new engine that causes this? The default lighting & render time seemed much more favorable in 2009.

Thanks,
Todd

[jmcintyre]

Hi Todd,
Have you tried opening a 2009 project in 2011 (without saving it) then rendering without changing anything? This is what I did to 'discover' the new problem. If it renders fine then there's something amiss in your 2011 template. What sun and sky illumination settings do you use?

[Tallans422]

Here are two samples of the same drawing rendered in 2009 and then 2011. I haven't been using any sun or sky settings, only default lighting. Render time on the 2009 sample was 48 sec., on the 2011 sample: 3 min. 11 sec.

[jmcintyre]

There has obviously been changes to the rendering engine with the change of file format. Also in 2011 the materials have been changed. I try not to change the default renderexposure setting, rather adjust the lighting levels for the sun and background illumination to achieve the desired result. eg I set the sun intensity to 0.3 and the sky/background illumination to 2 or 3. I have found adjusting the renderexposure is like taking the image into photoshop and fiddling with contrast and brightness. It's OK in a pinch, but doesn't work as well.