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AutoDesk Architecture

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Message 1 of 15
orrg
1026 Views, 14 Replies

AutoDesk Architecture

I’m wondering: Are there any teams looking at taking the excellent documenting and customizing features of Acad/ ADT and combining them with the bi-directional features of Revit to produce a truly excellent product, thereby putting an end to the whole Revit vs ADT mess and turning it into Revit and ADT possibly as “AutoDesk Architecture” or some such?

I understand that you’re (AutoDesk) making money hands over fists by playing ADT against Revit and cross selling to beat all he**, but the truth is: it takes both to be a true Architectural solution. You might not make as much money, but you would have a happier client base and they would be more interested in helping each other and furthering the “Art and Science” of Architecture than in wasting time arguing about which product is better than the other.

The path to a single “all-powerful” solution would be fairly simple:

Step One: Develop new utilities that translate “intelligent” components back and forth between Revit and ADT (I’ve gotten tired of waiting for you to do this and have started doing it on my own).

Step Two: Announce “AutoDesk Architecture” as the future of both products. Provide information as to the intended upgrade path and an approximate number of releases before the two are fully integrated (shouldn’t take more than two to get the bugs worked out, but give yourself three with all of the appropriate disclaimers as to it being an Estimated time frame, blah, blah, blah) and that All development (except that required to keep the products functional) will cease on the existing Architecture products and will instead be focused on the new product.

Step Three: Build the new AutoDesk Architecture Product (which is an AutoCAD based program that builds and maintains a True BIM as a “Project Database” that is probably very similar to the Revit Database) and include it with the next releases of ADT and Revit as “preview” software. All ADT and Revit components should translate into and out of this new product seamlessly.

Step Four: “Revit Series” becomes “AutoDesk Architecture Series” and is Revit and ADT bundled together (as opposed to Revit and AutoCAD) like with the “Revit MEP Series”. You’ll still sell some cross-grades (even though people have been told that they will get the new product by doing nothing) because the translation utilities allow those that believe in ADT to continue doing their high end documents, while the believers in the straight forward approach of Revit can continue to do their thing, yet all in the same office.

Step Five: be ready for the litigation from all of those that have paid to “Cross-grade” from ADT to Revit. Good attorneys will take care of you here, because of all of the usefulness that they have gained along the way.

Step Six: Say “You’re Welcome” and “We’re sorry that it took so long” to all of your grateful customers.

Gary

Gary J. Orr
CADD Manager
(314) 592-5644
OrrG@ForumStudio.com
FORUM
THE ART & SCIENCE OF BUILDING
2199 Innerbelt Business Center Drive
Saint Louis, MO 63114
p: (314) 429-1010
f: (314) 429-7770
www.forumstudio.com
14 REPLIES 14
Message 2 of 15
robincapperw
in reply to: orrg

Just Step Four would do me for now.

Robin
Autodesk AEC Collection 2020 - PC: HP Z6 | Win 10 64 | Xeon 3014 | 64 GB ram | Quadro P5000 - Tablet: Surface 3 Pro i5-4300u | Win 10 Ent 1703 64 | 8GB ram - Phone: Samsung S21 Ultra | Android 11
RobiNZ CAD Blog | LinkedIn
Message 3 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: orrg

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:13:21 +0000, Gary_J_Orr <> wrote:

Hahahahah!!

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com
Message 4 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: orrg

Step Seven: Live in a world where everyone is a pony, and they all eat
rainbows and poop butterflies.

All that sounds great, Gary. But...
Message 5 of 15
orrg
in reply to: orrg

Hey the title of this group does include "Wishes" doesn't it...
G 😉
Message 6 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: orrg

I for one hope that never happens. I find more and more I wish I had
converted to RAC a long time ago. NO MORE LAYERS. Everyday I'm finding it
harder to go to work on ACA each day after doing stuff at night on RAC. In
less than 2 mos, I'm AT LEAST 50% more productive in RAC than I could be in
ACA, just by the shear fact that I don't have to think of things like layer
Stds anymore. Just concentrate on Design.....RAC does the rest. JMTCW

--
Mike Maloney
RAC 2008
ACA 2008/2009
Navisworks 5.5


wrote in message news:5882358@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hey the title of this group does include "Wishes" doesn't it...
G 😉
Message 7 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: orrg

Hi Gary

I agree with you. To invest in two products, makes no sense.
Maybe the alternative is the new ArchiCAD version, called Start Edition
2008. It's a BIM solution and costs only 1500€:
http://www.graphisoftus.com/start_edition/
Message 8 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: orrg

Pedro I don't think the full version competes with ACA!

"Pedro Aroso" wrote in message
news:5883319@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Gary

I agree with you. To invest in two products, makes no sense.
Maybe the alternative is the new ArchiCAD version, called Start Edition
2008. It's a BIM solution and costs only 1500?:
http://www.graphisoftus.com/start_edition/
Message 9 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: orrg

Not that it really matters what we wish for here, but just in case someone
in Autodesk land really does read these things, I for one do not want Revit
and ACA to ever merge. The less like Revit ADT remains, the better. The
more consistent ACA remains with it's parent AutoCAD the better. That's
just one voice, but one that I want to make sure stays heard along with all
the Revit adopters. I don't think I'm the only one with this opinion, but
we're definitely becoming less vocal as time goes on....

No offense to any of the opposite persuasion.

-Brian Harder




wrote in message news:5881575@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm wondering: Are there any teams looking at taking the excellent
documenting and customizing features of Acad/ ADT and combining them with
the bi-directional features of Revit to produce a truly excellent product,
thereby putting an end to the whole Revit vs ADT mess and turning it into
Revit and ADT possibly as "AutoDesk Architecture" or some such?

I understand that you're (AutoDesk) making money hands over fists by playing
ADT against Revit and cross selling to beat all he**, but the truth is: it
takes both to be a true Architectural solution. You might not make as much
money, but you would have a happier client base and they would be more
interested in helping each other and furthering the "Art and Science" of
Architecture than in wasting time arguing about which product is better than
the other.

The path to a single "all-powerful" solution would be fairly simple:

Step One: Develop new utilities that translate "intelligent" components back
and forth between Revit and ADT (I've gotten tired of waiting for you to do
this and have started doing it on my own).

Step Two: Announce "AutoDesk Architecture" as the future of both products.
Provide information as to the intended upgrade path and an approximate
number of releases before the two are fully integrated (shouldn't take more
than two to get the bugs worked out, but give yourself three with all of the
appropriate disclaimers as to it being an Estimated time frame, blah, blah,
blah) and that All development (except that required to keep the products
functional) will cease on the existing Architecture products and will
instead be focused on the new product.

Step Three: Build the new AutoDesk Architecture Product (which is an AutoCAD
based program that builds and maintains a True BIM as a "Project Database"
that is probably very similar to the Revit Database) and include it with the
next releases of ADT and Revit as "preview" software. All ADT and Revit
components should translate into and out of this new product seamlessly.

Step Four: "Revit Series" becomes "AutoDesk Architecture Series" and is
Revit and ADT bundled together (as opposed to Revit and AutoCAD) like with
the "Revit MEP Series". You'll still sell some cross-grades (even though
people have been told that they will get the new product by doing nothing)
because the translation utilities allow those that believe in ADT to
continue doing their high end documents, while the believers in the straight
forward approach of Revit can continue to do their thing, yet all in the
same office.

Step Five: be ready for the litigation from all of those that have paid to
"Cross-grade" from ADT to Revit. Good attorneys will take care of you here,
because of all of the usefulness that they have gained along the way.

Step Six: Say "You're Welcome" and "We're sorry that it took so long" to all
of your grateful customers.

Gary

Gary J. Orr
CADD Manager
(314) 592-5644
OrrG@ForumStudio.com
FORUM
THE ART & SCIENCE OF BUILDING
2199 Innerbelt Business Center Drive
Saint Louis, MO 63114
p: (314) 429-1010
f: (314) 429-7770
www.forumstudio.com
Message 10 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: orrg

I'm sure Revit users want Revit to remain as much unlike ACA as well, except
for maybe the text editing capabilities... 🙂

"Brian Harder" wrote in message
news:5890649@discussion.autodesk.com...
Not that it really matters what we wish for here, but just in case someone
in Autodesk land really does read these things, I for one do not want Revit
and ACA to ever merge. The less like Revit ADT remains, the better. The
more consistent ACA remains with it's parent AutoCAD the better. That's
just one voice, but one that I want to make sure stays heard along with all
the Revit adopters. I don't think I'm the only one with this opinion, but
we're definitely becoming less vocal as time goes on....

No offense to any of the opposite persuasion.

-Brian Harder




wrote in message news:5881575@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm wondering: Are there any teams looking at taking the excellent
documenting and customizing features of Acad/ ADT and combining them with
the bi-directional features of Revit to produce a truly excellent product,
thereby putting an end to the whole Revit vs ADT mess and turning it into
Revit and ADT possibly as "AutoDesk Architecture" or some such?

I understand that you're (AutoDesk) making money hands over fists by playing
ADT against Revit and cross selling to beat all he**, but the truth is: it
takes both to be a true Architectural solution. You might not make as much
money, but you would have a happier client base and they would be more
interested in helping each other and furthering the "Art and Science" of
Architecture than in wasting time arguing about which product is better than
the other.

The path to a single "all-powerful" solution would be fairly simple:

Step One: Develop new utilities that translate "intelligent" components back
and forth between Revit and ADT (I've gotten tired of waiting for you to do
this and have started doing it on my own).

Step Two: Announce "AutoDesk Architecture" as the future of both products.
Provide information as to the intended upgrade path and an approximate
number of releases before the two are fully integrated (shouldn't take more
than two to get the bugs worked out, but give yourself three with all of the
appropriate disclaimers as to it being an Estimated time frame, blah, blah,
blah) and that All development (except that required to keep the products
functional) will cease on the existing Architecture products and will
instead be focused on the new product.

Step Three: Build the new AutoDesk Architecture Product (which is an AutoCAD
based program that builds and maintains a True BIM as a "Project Database"
that is probably very similar to the Revit Database) and include it with the
next releases of ADT and Revit as "preview" software. All ADT and Revit
components should translate into and out of this new product seamlessly.

Step Four: "Revit Series" becomes "AutoDesk Architecture Series" and is
Revit and ADT bundled together (as opposed to Revit and AutoCAD) like with
the "Revit MEP Series". You'll still sell some cross-grades (even though
people have been told that they will get the new product by doing nothing)
because the translation utilities allow those that believe in ADT to
continue doing their high end documents, while the believers in the straight
forward approach of Revit can continue to do their thing, yet all in the
same office.

Step Five: be ready for the litigation from all of those that have paid to
"Cross-grade" from ADT to Revit. Good attorneys will take care of you here,
because of all of the usefulness that they have gained along the way.

Step Six: Say "You're Welcome" and "We're sorry that it took so long" to all
of your grateful customers.

Gary

Gary J. Orr
CADD Manager
(314) 592-5644
OrrG@ForumStudio.com
FORUM
THE ART & SCIENCE OF BUILDING
2199 Innerbelt Business Center Drive
Saint Louis, MO 63114
p: (314) 429-1010
f: (314) 429-7770
www.forumstudio.com
Message 11 of 15
Anonymous
in reply to: orrg

I think the reality of the programming side, makes it impossible to "merge"
the two into one, like the OP wishes. I think this was addressed at the time
of the original purchase of Revit. More likely: taking bits and pieces like
the detailing and rendering side over.....
--
Kevin Anderson
www.KAddAssociates.com
"Scott Davis - Autodesk" wrote in message
news:5890714@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm sure Revit users want Revit to remain as much unlike ACA as well, except
for maybe the text editing capabilities... 🙂

"Brian Harder" wrote in message
news:5890649@discussion.autodesk.com...
Not that it really matters what we wish for here, but just in case someone
in Autodesk land really does read these things, I for one do not want Revit
and ACA to ever merge. The less like Revit ADT remains, the better. The
more consistent ACA remains with it's parent AutoCAD the better. That's
just one voice, but one that I want to make sure stays heard along with all
the Revit adopters. I don't think I'm the only one with this opinion, but
we're definitely becoming less vocal as time goes on....

No offense to any of the opposite persuasion.

-Brian Harder




wrote in message news:5881575@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm wondering: Are there any teams looking at taking the excellent
documenting and customizing features of Acad/ ADT and combining them with
the bi-directional features of Revit to produce a truly excellent product,
thereby putting an end to the whole Revit vs ADT mess and turning it into
Revit and ADT possibly as "AutoDesk Architecture" or some such?

I understand that you're (AutoDesk) making money hands over fists by playing
ADT against Revit and cross selling to beat all he**, but the truth is: it
takes both to be a true Architectural solution. You might not make as much
money, but you would have a happier client base and they would be more
interested in helping each other and furthering the "Art and Science" of
Architecture than in wasting time arguing about which product is better than
the other.

The path to a single "all-powerful" solution would be fairly simple:

Step One: Develop new utilities that translate "intelligent" components back
and forth between Revit and ADT (I've gotten tired of waiting for you to do
this and have started doing it on my own).

Step Two: Announce "AutoDesk Architecture" as the future of both products.
Provide information as to the intended upgrade path and an approximate
number of releases before the two are fully integrated (shouldn't take more
than two to get the bugs worked out, but give yourself three with all of the
appropriate disclaimers as to it being an Estimated time frame, blah, blah,
blah) and that All development (except that required to keep the products
functional) will cease on the existing Architecture products and will
instead be focused on the new product.

Step Three: Build the new AutoDesk Architecture Product (which is an AutoCAD
based program that builds and maintains a True BIM as a "Project Database"
that is probably very similar to the Revit Database) and include it with the
next releases of ADT and Revit as "preview" software. All ADT and Revit
components should translate into and out of this new product seamlessly.

Step Four: "Revit Series" becomes "AutoDesk Architecture Series" and is
Revit and ADT bundled together (as opposed to Revit and AutoCAD) like with
the "Revit MEP Series". You'll still sell some cross-grades (even though
people have been told that they will get the new product by doing nothing)
because the translation utilities allow those that believe in ADT to
continue doing their high end documents, while the believers in the straight
forward approach of Revit can continue to do their thing, yet all in the
same office.

Step Five: be ready for the litigation from all of those that have paid to
"Cross-grade" from ADT to Revit. Good attorneys will take care of you here,
because of all of the usefulness that they have gained along the way.

Step Six: Say "You're Welcome" and "We're sorry that it took so long" to all
of your grateful customers.

Gary

Gary J. Orr
CADD Manager
(314) 592-5644
OrrG@ForumStudio.com
FORUM
THE ART & SCIENCE OF BUILDING
2199 Innerbelt Business Center Drive
Saint Louis, MO 63114
p: (314) 429-1010
f: (314) 429-7770
www.forumstudio.com
Message 12 of 15
orrg
in reply to: orrg

-snip-
makes it impossible to "merge"
the two into one
-snip-

I think that I said build a new program that uses the best components from each.
Yes the underlying program structure of Revit prevents us from dumping the whole app into the acad environment, but the programmers are constantly creating "similar" tools to mimic the functionality of one in the other.

By restarting the process as a new AutoCAD derivitive, and by using the sucesses from each program (the simplicity of Revit's display system along with the robustness of ACA's multiple component types) a truly great program can be developed. It can also be developed in such a way as to be a progression of each program.

Digging into the Revit database structure and seeing how the database is assembled... It will collapse from it's own weight from the inside out as it progresses, while seeing ACA's method of reiterating through the entire display system for each view of each object for each viewport takes ridiculous amounts of time for the processors.

A combination of ACA and Revit core functionalities is possible, if it's approached from a methodology of replicating the desired functionality from each as oppossed to trying to integrate one into the other.

But again, these are just my wishes...
G.
Message 13 of 15
orrg
in reply to: orrg

One down (well actually number two)...
Here's a quote from an email from my reseller (it's a couple of other places as well)
In mid-September when Revit Architecture Suite 2009.1 ships…Autocad Architecture will now be included.
Message 14 of 15
orrg
in reply to: orrg

Oops, meant step four (or nearly so). That's what I get for not quoting my own post.
G
Message 15 of 15
Gary_J_Orr
in reply to: orrg

Me again... I was orrg when I started this, have been so many users as my email address has changed back before the "one user" thing and our user names were tied directly to our email addresses and/or our company subscription accounts... anyway...

 

It's amazing to see how many of the "functions" of Revit and/or ACA have been ported to the other... how similar the two products are in look and feel... how Revit has become very intense from a management perspective where it was so easy before due to the inclusions of things such as reference files and other things that weren't around before, how the ACA teams have nearly dropper layers from the "out of the box content" by overriding everything with specific lineweights and display colors...

 

But, of course, I'm not smart enough for my suggestion to have been taken seriously or for my attempts to get a job working for AutoDesk to help such such concepts as the ones that I brought forward all those years ago (and only after staying quiet about my vision/dream for such for a couple of years prior to that)... oh yea, my idea wouldn't be selling at 10,000 a seat since it would have been the intended development direction for both products and would have negated having to buy an expensive suite...

 

Oh well... it will come... eventually... kinda like a real BIM Standard will eventually be developed even though that should have been done long ago...

 

Gman, Gary J. Orr, Gary_J_Orr, OrrG, Gary_J_Orr@hotmail.com, plus all the others that I've been...

Later

Gary J. Orr
(Your Friendly Neighborhood) CADD/BIM/VDC Applications Manager
http://www.linkedin.com/in/garyorr

aka (current and past user names):
Gary_J_Orr (GOMO Stuff 2008-Present); OrrG (Forum Studio 2005-2008); Gary J. Orr (LHB Inc 2002-2005); Orr, Gary J. (Gossen Livingston 1997-2002)

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