Plot styles for different scales?

[mbuonocore]

I've been using Autocad for over 20 years.  Any office I've ever worked in never used custom plot styles.

Can custom plot styles control lineweights of objects at different scales?  For example, I have a floor plan drawn for 1/4" plotting the lineweights look fine.  Now I want to print that floor plan at 1/8" but many lines now look darker than before.  Can I create a plotstyle for the 1/8" scale to control the lineweights?

If so, can someone point me to a good resource for instructions.  I've found some information but it a bit confusing.

Thanks.

[pendean]

STYLESMANAGER inside AutoCAD to open the folder where your styles are located, make a copy of the one you want to edit, double click on this copy, click on the last tab (far right), select a pen and help yourself.

If you get stuck post back: CTB and STB work differently, hopefully you know which one you are using.

[maxim_k]

If you are managing lineweight settings in your drawing with layers (each layer has it's own lineweight assigned and objects resides on different layers with lineweight set BYLAYER to accomplish different lineweight output) you can even don't use Plot Styles.
I use Layer states. If I need to output drawing in different scales, I create a set of Layer states with different lineweights assigned to Layers (for large scales lineweight scheme is "lighter" than for small scales. Then I activate Layer state I need for current scale.

Maxim

[dgorsman]

We use many different CTBs and several STBs, since we have multiple clients and multiple applications.  Most of our plots are check prints on 11x17 paper, while we sometimes do full size A1 prints.  Lines that look "right" on one won't on the other, so we have separate style files for each.  We don't diddle with the colors (or styles, for our few STB drawings).  Instead the CTB and STB files are set up so one can be substituted for the other for the different paper sizes.

Now, I hear you say "But thats a lot of work.  How can I expect everybody to set the correct plot style every time?".  Easy: named page set-ups.

[SteveChestnut]

Something that works well for us in my office...

We made the move to .STB printing some years ago.

The layouts in our templates are based upon a D size (22x34) sheet.

Our layer lineweights were selected to look good when our layouts are plotted 1:1 on D size paper.

BUT...

When we print B size (11x17) we make sure that the Scale Lineweights option is checked on the

plot dialog box. This scales down the lineweights relative to the 1:2 scale we are plotting at when

we print 11x17.  On both our D size prints and B size prints the lineweights look good.

All this is set in the page setups so to the user this is all behind the scenes and just works.

Hope this helps,

Steve

[mbuonocore]

Thanks everyone for the info.  I've always set my lineweights by layer like Maxim suggested and use the "Scale Lineweights" in plot box for reductions.  My client wanted me to look into creating plot styles for different scales. That's the way her company did it way back.  I'll do more research on .stb's I guess.

[SteveChestnut]

Hello, 

I highly recommend looking into .STB printing.

We use the delivered Autodesk-MONO.STB and Autodesk-COLOR.STB exclusively.

With .CTB printing you are working with old pen plotter technology where lineweight

has to be processed as pen strokes.  With .STB printing everything is controlled by

your layers - color, lineweight and screening all come through as you have them

defined.  We have no need for any custom .STBs and anyone we send drawings

to always has the correct .STB for printing since we use only the factory ones.

That's my $.02.  Good luck with .STB study.

Best Regards,

Steve

[dgorsman]

Scaling lineweights can work OK, but I've found that for many drawing types the linear change in line width doesn't produce good drawings e.g. the difference between thick and thin lines is reduced.  On a reduced print we would want the thick lines to be a little thicker than scaled so they continue to stand out.

[jggerth]

---

@dgorsman wrote:

Scaling lineweights can work OK, but I've found that for many drawing types the linear change in line width doesn't produce good drawings e.g. the difference between thick and thin lines is reduced.  On a reduced print we would want the thick lines to be a little thicker than scaled so they continue to stand out.

---

Agreed.  we use two ctb families, one for C, D & E size prints, and one for A & B.  The latter is named by appending "_Half" to the norma name.  And rather than a straight 50% reduction, we've decided that 30% is appropriate, eg 0.10mm is changed to 0.07mm.

the choice of normal or half is driven by output paper size - not drawing scale.  Whether it's 1"=100', 1"=5', or 1/2"=1'-0"  I'm not going select the ctb based on paper size.  

[mbuonocore]

I've been doing some research and am still confused maybe someone can enlighten me?

I only print B&W.  My client wants lineweights to look good when large scale drawings are reduced to smaller sheets.  For 20+ years I've been using CTB and it's worked fine.

1.  If I use STB plot styles, I am basically assigning a plot style to a layer.

2.  That layer reads the STB style settings?  That means I have to assign each layer (which are normally many) a STB style?

3.  The STB style lineweight setting controls the color of objects which means I should only using a handful of colors not the entire 255 available?  Example, color 1 Red .18mm, color 2 green .50.....The lineweight screening is set to 100%

4.  If I want to print a drawing originally for D size on an A size, I should make a new STB for A size printing and set the color lineweights to be thinner.  Example, color 1 red .05mm, color 2 green .35...etc.  This would still give me varying lineweights instead of using the "Scale Lineweight" feature in the plotting box.  The downside is that I would have to take the time and assign the A size STB for each layer.

Whew! That was mouth full.  Thanks.

[pendean]

STB ignores screen color: you seem to be describing CTB instead.

You assign STB to a layer like you assign color to a layer and a linetype to a layer: as long as your objects are set to BYLAYER for those parameters, that's how it works.

Again, screen color is irrelevant with STBs. Your layer 1 objects can be all the colors of the rainbow but as long as they BYALYER plot style setting they all plot the same.

[SteveChestnut]

Hello,

Do not try to use .STB printing while thinking in .CTB terms.

STB printing has nothing to do with colors.

STB printing looks at your layers and gets its printing orders from the layer.

FIRST - Your drawing file must be set to use .STBs. 

Open the PLOT dialog box and look at the Plot style table pulldown.

You will see either a list of .STBs or a list of .CTBs, you won't see both.

If you are seeing a list of .STBs your drawing is set to Plot By Style.

If you see a list of .CTBs then run the CONVERTPSTYLES command to switch

the drawing over to .STB or Plot By Style printing.  See attached "plot-dialog-box.bmp"

SECOND - Now that your drawing is set for STB printing take a look at your layers.

Each layer has a place for Lineweight and Plot Style.  See attached "layers.bmp".

Set your lineweights for how you want the drawing to print when printed at your

largest size.  Under Plot Styles set your plot style for each layer to either Solid or

one of the % Screenings.  Do not use Normal, Color or any other setting than Solid

or one of the Screens.  The other ones can give strange results.

We can get into that another time.  See attached "select-plot-style.bmp"

THIRD - Now print your drawing.  Use Autodesk-MONO.stb as the selected Plot Style

on the PLOT dialog box.  Autodesk-MONO.STB will look at each layer and will print

the lineweight and plot style (Solid or a % Screen) from the layer definition.

The color of the layer will not matter at all.

IN MY OFFICE - In my office our borders are D size and the largest prints we make

are D size so we are printing the Layout 1:1 when we print D size.  We based our

lineweights on how they look on a D size plot.  Then when we print at smaller at

B size (11x17) we are printing the Layout at 1:2.  We have the scale lineweights box

checked on the PLOT dialog box and the lineweights are scaled down so the 11x17

print has lighter lineweights overall compared to the D size.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck,

Steve

[mbuonocore]

Thanks for the reply.  Does anyone have a couple of STB they want to share here so that I can see the settings?  What I am looking to accomplish is taking a drawing with lineweights used for a D size plot and printing the same drawing on an B size with varying lineweights.  Thanks.

[mbuonocore]

Thanks Steve, you must have been typing the same time I was.

[dgorsman]

STB works *exactly* like CTB, except your are assigning names to plot styles instead of using pre-defined color numbers.  So, we have a full size STB which has plot styles of "Thin", "Medium", and "Thick", each with a line weight suitable for our full-size plotter.  We also have a reduced size STB which has plot styles of exactly the same names, but thinner line weights that are more appropriate to the smaller page size.  Its no different than using Color 50 in the drawing, in the full size CTB, and in the reduced size CTB.

[SteveChestnut]

Hello,

We use Autodesk-MONO.stb and Autodesk-COLOR.stb as installed by AutoCAD with no modifications.

All lineweights are set by the lineweight of the layer.

By using the factory .STBs with no modification we can give our drawings to almost anybody who

can print them with their copy of the factory .STBs and get the same results.

(Provided they didn't modify their copies of the factory .STBs - and if they did DARN THEM!).

If you wish to look into taking a .STB and modfiying it to give more adjustment to your lineweights

other than what the the "Scale Lineweights" option in PLOT offers I'd suggest you make a copy of

Autodesk-MONO.stb and experiment with the copy.

Looks like you are making progress.

Any more questions let us know.

Regards,

Steve

[mbuonocore]

Okay.  Now that I thought about all posts while eating my chocolate frosted donut.....not only do I have a stomach ache but also a headache.  I'm usuallly not this dumb...so I'll end the thread after this.

In the OTB Monochrome.ctb plotstyle, the Lineweight box (for all colors) says "Use objects lineweight".  Does that read the lineweight column set for each layer in the layer manager?  If so, what does the color have to do with anything?

Example.  Layer A-Walls is red, the lineweight is set for .50mm in the layer.   All objects are set to BY LAYER for lineweight.

If my consultant also uses the OTB Monochrome.ctb then he will get the same lineweight reults.

[pendean]

Do yourself a huge favor: start STYLESMANAGER command and open your own established MYOWNSPECIAL.CTB file plus one of the generic files like ACAD.STB files, park them side by side.

Click on the form view for each.

They are the same except for one thing: in the CTB you see colors, in the STB you see only the names. All the other settings are exactly the same. Pick a pen in your CTB, create a style in the STB and match their settings. Repeat for every other pen setting that you need.

Done. Finished. Completed.

Layer settings remain exactly like they where when you used CTBs except, and this is important, except for the PLOT STYLE coloumn that you now have to assign.

Stop overthinking STBs and for pete's sake stop thinking about the color of a layer or the color of the objects, they no longer matter when plotting with STBs 🙂