AutoCAD 2013/2014/2015

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Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 927
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 61 of 79 (260 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 09:32 AM in reply to: dgorsman

yep, like forte agent or Outlook express.

Its amazing to see "technology leaders" mess up something so fundamental to their sales, so badly.

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Jason.Piercey
Posts: 1,096
Registered: ‎04-04-2001
Message 62 of 79 (250 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 09:47 AM in reply to: jmaeding

But we now have a "state-of-the-art web interface" complete with silly smiley faces and kudos.

 

Who in their right mind would take a functional interface over a cute one? /sarcasm.

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 927
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 63 of 79 (248 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 09:54 AM in reply to: jmaeding

well, cute is as cute does (and its not doing.)

Of all the ominous things Autodesk has done, this interface one sends one message loud and clear:

"HEY CUSTOMERS, WE MAKE ENOUGH MONEY OFF YOU THAT WE HAVE ROOM TO PLAY"

and production processes at real companies suffer.

I'm still watching most companies struggle with C3D, and hold onto LDT lke a liferaft.

*Expert Elite*
dbroad
Posts: 1,475
Registered: ‎08-16-2007
Message 64 of 79 (242 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 10:17 AM in reply to: jmaeding

I think I have already mentioned that teamwork with those using earlier versions can be justified.  Not everyone on the team needs to own the same AEC objects.  Some would be detailing, adding linework, hatching, doing presentation drawings, using later drawings saved back for backgrounds, etc.


Although I do not need to interact this way and do not personally save back much, its not hard to imagine reasonable, competent people wanting to roundtrip information.  Its not only AEC objects that round trip BTW.  Infrequently, I am asked to send a drawing to those using R2000. In a few cases, those users have added information that I must build on later.  I am glad for example, that when I open the drawing, annotative objects are preserved.

 

Of course, the ideal is for competent people to keep up-to-date with their professional software.  This means anyone still using R14 or windows 3.1, for example, might question their own professionalism.  Is it professional for those users to expect the drafting world revolve around their need not to spend any money for their tools?

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 927
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 65 of 79 (240 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 10:39 AM in reply to: dbroad

sure, we would like the ability to round-trip, there are uses for such a workflow, but it does not work.

You round trip a C3D drawing and its so fragile its not a risk anyone I know would take when real work is at stake.

 

The only one's I've seen do it do not even realize what they are doing.

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Steve_Johnson
Posts: 604
Registered: ‎05-01-2005
Message 66 of 79 (227 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 09:10 PM in reply to: jmaeding

jmaeding wrote:

I understand that there "might" be someone out there who wants to round trip drawings and keep higher version aec objects intact, but those same people are generally ignorant to what they are doing.

 

Can anyone give an example of a competent user adopting a workflow that allows round tripping?

Key word being competent.


I don't know whether you'd consider me competent or not, but I can certainly provide an example. We produce drawings ourselves, but the vast majority of drawings that come into and go out of our drawing management system are produced and used by external parties. That's well over 100 companies of all sizes. Because we can't dictate the AutoCAD release or variant used by those companies, we have to store lowest-common-denominator old-release DWG files that can be used by practically anyone. This is an unfortunate situation and I'm very aware of the drawbacks, but the nature of our business means we're stuck with it.

 

If saving back and round-tripping of vertical objects worked correctly, that would make our lives a lot easier. If Civil 3D 2013 created a DWG file that could be opened and worked on by a vanilla AutoCAD 2007 user, yet allowed the Civil 3D 2013 user to open that drawing and find the Civil 3D objects intact, that would be perfect. That's how round-tripping was supposed to work, but over the years I guess doing things properly has become too hard for the developers to manage given the 12-month cycle, and the imperfections have grown to become the norm.

Steve Johnson - blog nauseam - ClassicArray
Distinguished Contributor
donande
Posts: 294
Registered: ‎04-26-2005
Message 67 of 79 (216 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 06:37 AM in reply to: jmaeding

jmaeding wrote:

I understand that there "might" be someone out there who wants to round trip drawings and keep higher version aec objects intact, but those same people are generally ignorant to what they are doing.

 

Can anyone give an example of a competent user adopting a workflow that allows round tripping?

Key word being competent.


Ummm?

 

Isn’t the whole point the new 2013 “Cloud” feature is to have drawings useable by multiple sources?

And I think that it would/should include a variety of programs as well as devices.

 

A round trip drawing we have is our is for campus underground utilities, we manage the campus map updating with basic AutoCAD and a contractor updates the utilities part of the drawing using a AutoCAD civil program. 

Plus with exchange DWG of contractors the use various AutoCAD architectural programs.

 

For every company out there creating new buildings, roads, machines, etc there is another company out there that manages them. And at some point whatever it is will need to be changed or expanded on and a company that creates new will need the drawings, preferable with the vertical AECs.

 

Distinguished Contributor
donande
Posts: 294
Registered: ‎04-26-2005
Message 68 of 79 (210 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 07:00 AM in reply to: donande

$@$&*@$!!!

I talk to customer support yesterday and get this their solution to my AEC 2013 problem was to BUY AutoCAD MEP for the only use of exporting every drawing to the remove the vertical AECs. :smileyfrustrated:

 

And when I said if there was a way to copy “layer filters” and “layer descriptions”  I could use “-AECEXPORTTOAUTOCAD”

I was told no one uses them and Autodesk will not fix that issue.

Going by that logic the ribbon should no long be updated, hell why not just remove every feature that is not used by the majority.

 

Well they closed my case and ask for my feedback, I think I was too kind.:manmad:

 

“NO reasonable solution offered, only thing suggest was to buy more faulty software from us to have a work around.  

Autodesk is greedy and will do all in my power to insure a class action law suit is filed and won against Autodesk from AutoCAD 2013.

The basic AutoCAD 2013 converts all AECs into the new format, and when doing a save-as earlier version the AECs remain in the 2013 format.  And unlike the vertical AutoCADs it does not have it does not have the ability to export as a DWG without the vertical AECs.

 

Considering the basic AutoCAD has all the programs has the verticals, but the vertical features are lock. There is no reason other than greed for Autodesk not unlock that one feature in the basic AutoCAD. “

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Jason.Piercey
Posts: 1,096
Registered: ‎04-04-2001
Message 69 of 79 (200 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 07:38 AM in reply to: donande

donande wrote:

And when I said if there was a way to copy “layer filters” and “layer descriptions”  I could use “-AECEXPORTTOAUTOCAD”


I'm guessing this importing could be done with a custom solution.  Just sayin'.

 

 


donande wrote:

The basic AutoCAD 2013 converts all AECs into the new format


 

Vanilla (basic) AutoCAD does no such thing.  I believe we've already proved this to be factual.

 

 


donande wrote:

And unlike the vertical AutoCADs it does not have it does not have the ability to export as a DWG without the vertical AECs.


 

-ExportToAutoCAD (note the dash) command in vanilla AutoCAD.

 

I'm not defending Autodesk support by any stretch, I'm waiting on resolution to a few

issues myself and I suspect I'll be disappointed with their reply (assuming I get one).

 

 

 

*Expert Elite*
dbroad
Posts: 1,475
Registered: ‎08-16-2007
Message 70 of 79 (193 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 08:32 AM in reply to: jmaeding

Failure to round trip effectively is a big flaw IMO if it doesn't work in C3D.  I can't test that but did test R2013 to R2010 format for a very basic ACA drawing with proxygraphics enabled.  It seemed to round trip fine and I was able to add non AEC content OK.  I do wish that was able to add AEC content in the 2012 version.  Another big flaw in the AEC system is the lack of object snaps for proxy graphics.  That seems silly since the proxy graphics should be block based.  We shouldn't have to explode stuff to do basic manipulation like moving mvblocks, unless they are anchored.

 

Admittedly, I rarely if ever do this.  As the products mature, I hope that the interactivity between versions could be improved.

 

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