AutoCAD 2013/2014/2015

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Valued Mentor
Jason.Piercey
Posts: 1,116
Registered: ‎04-04-2001
Message 41 of 79 (371 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

05-30-2012 12:57 PM in reply to: donande

The 12 month release cycle is silly enough, no way would I want ot manage patches and/or

updates on a monthly basis.  I can't imagine how much effort it would be for large firms to

manage that type of schedule with 3rd party applications and custom routines.  Ugh.

Valued Mentor
Jason.Piercey
Posts: 1,116
Registered: ‎04-04-2001
Message 42 of 79 (369 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

05-30-2012 01:04 PM in reply to: jmaeding

jmaeding wrote:

 

I would guess the vanilla is behaving, and that something else specific to the user is adding the 2013 aec objects.

 


 

This is my guess as well, but the title of this thead topic and many posts within claim otherwise.

 

*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,893
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 43 of 79 (364 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

05-30-2012 01:04 PM in reply to: donande

Hi,

 

>> But part of me says if MS office products and Adobe products can do it, why can’t Autodesk!

That sentence now makes me stepping into this thread.

Have you ever tried to save a WORD-file (docx) from Office 2010 back to 2007 or 2003 (doc)? That is just one (or 2003=two releases) backwards but you lose formating in some/many situations (and that also results ends up in new pages, in moved pictures that are anchored to text-positions, and a lot more).

Would you really accept if your AutoCAD-objects are modified to something looking quite different compared to what you have drawn? I would tell you my answer: I would not accept any single modification as this is wrong then.

 

It's quite easy to say "save back to old release and don't lose anything has to be built in", but think about what you have to do to achive that.

Try to imagine a simple situation: you create a nurbs-object, assign it a material (currently MentalRay-like) in AutoCAD 2013, then save it back as DWG2004.

We know for AutoCAD 2004 (and so the DWG2004-fileformat) it does not know anything about NURBS and it does not know anything about MentalRay-materials.

But Autodesk is able to save it back, it can be opened/visualized/plotted/... with 2004, and better then everything, you can reopen it in 2013 and the NURBS object is back, the material is back, nothing is destroyed or modified (try that with WORD).

 

BTW: I also don't have the problem with AEC-objects as long as my DWT had none included and no application add's them I can save back to 2012 and reopen it in 2012 and in 2013 without any warnings (dialogs not kicked away).

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
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Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 954
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 44 of 79 (362 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

05-30-2012 01:10 PM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

the dumb thing is if you know what you are doing, you must explode those aec objects during the save-down.

So why would autodesk make anything that allowed save-down with objects intact?

 

Even the Civil batch drawing converter has the option to not explode aec objects!!

The option is not even labeled right, it should say "explode AEC objects", not just "explode objects".

 

Its like they are playing dumb, but they are the only ones that buy into their "as-designed" feature.

I bet they advertise that feature when they do those round-table "market to those that do not know what the heck they are being sold" conferences. Its messed up, and we ain't gonna forget til its fixed or we get Bricscad going.

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 954
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 45 of 79 (330 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

05-31-2012 07:55 AM in reply to: Jason.Piercey

That is a tricky subject, the update/bug fix needs vs just keeping things stable.

My experience is you need constant fixes for any evolving software.

They need to do some kind of distribution of unstable builds, like an open source project does.

So we try them, and adopt if they strike the balance we need.

Instead, we have this system where you get updates and hot fixes very far in between.

That frustrates everyone, as its simultaneously slow and black box.

We need to be testing and commenting on the fixes and new feature *attempts* as they go.

 

Valued Mentor
Jason.Piercey
Posts: 1,116
Registered: ‎04-04-2001
Message 46 of 79 (294 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-04-2012 01:01 PM in reply to: jmaeding

jmaeding wrote:

We need to be testing and commenting on the fixes and new feature *attempts* as they go.

 


 

That's what Beta testing is supposed to be about.  Supposed to be...

 

*Expert Elite*
dbroad
Posts: 1,507
Registered: ‎08-16-2007
Message 47 of 79 (284 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-04-2012 02:15 PM in reply to: jmaeding

jmaeding wrote:

 

So why would autodesk make anything that allowed save-down with objects intact?

 


Although is not in my workflow to save back, the merit of not automatically exploding is that the objects should round trip back to the current version without being destroyed.  The option to explode is available but is not a default behavior.  This is true of many other objects, such as the annotative scaling system, parametric constraints, etc.  Although proxy objects cannot  be manipulated, they can be seen and plotted.

 

Distinguished Contributor
donande
Posts: 294
Registered: ‎04-26-2005
Message 48 of 79 (274 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 06:20 AM in reply to: donande

Update:

 

Currently I only use 2013 to try to find the AEC problem when I have time, and have had little contact with support.

And really I don’t have much time to do free work for them, nor the skills needed to fix this mess.:smileyfrustrated:

 

I no longer suspect 2013 is creating AEC, but I’m not sure.

I do know all my drawings have hundreds of old inactive and unused AECs from AutoCAD Architectural Desktop 2007.

About five years ago we switch from using AAD to plain AutoCAD, being Facilities Management for a University and not an Architectural company, there was not any point in paying for extra features we did not use.

 

I have deleted and purge everything from a drawing so all that remains is the lever filters and the bloody AECs!  

So the only way a know to remove them is to create new drawings and cut& past and use design center to get layouts.

To have to do the every drawing it would take over a thousand man hours!

Currently I can open the drawing in 2012 after closing the pop-up.

But I don’t think that would be true if a restarted use 2013 again, or received a 2013 drawing from a contactor.

Valued Mentor
Jason.Piercey
Posts: 1,116
Registered: ‎04-04-2001
Message 49 of 79 (265 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 06:46 AM in reply to: donande

donande wrote:

 

I no longer suspect 2013 is creating AEC, but I’m not sure.

I do know all my drawings have hundreds of old inactive and unused AECs from AutoCAD Architectural Desktop 2007.

 

I have deleted and purge everything from a drawing so all that remains is the lever filters and the bloody AECs!  

So the only way a know to remove them is to create new drawings and cut& past and use design center to get layouts.


You have lots of AEC content in that file.  If you are using this to start new drawings files

with... that right there is the root of your problem.

 

All of the below was found in the drawing file.  Some required, some not.  You could clean

this up and use it but it'd likely be safer to just recreate your layer filters in a clean file.

 

Dictionaries

 

"AcAec"
"AcStPlugin"
"AEC_2D_SECTION_STYLES"
"AEC_AREA_GROUP_DEFS"
"AEC_AREA_PROPOSALNAMES"
"AEC_AREA_STYLES"
"AEC_AREAGROUP_STYLES"
"AEC_CLASSIFICATION_SYSTEM_DEFS"
"AEC_CLEANUP_GROUP_DEFS"
"AEC_CURTAIN_WALL_LAYOUT_STYLES"
"AEC_CURTAIN_WALL_UNIT_STYLES"
"AEC_DIM_STYLES"
"AEC_DISP_REP_CONFIGURATIONS"
"AEC_DISP_REP_SETS"
"AEC_DISP_REPS"
"AEC_DISPLAY_PROPS_DEFAULTS"
"AEC_DOOR_STYLES"
"AEC_ENDCAP_STYLES"
"AEC_LAYERKEY_STYLES"
"AEC_MASKBLOCK_DEFS"
"AEC_MASS_ELEM_STYLES"
"AEC_MATERIAL_DEFS"
"AEC_MVBLOCK_DEFS"
"AEC_OPENING_ENDCAP_STYLES"
"AEC_POLYGON_STYLES"
"AEC_PROPERTY_FORMAT_DEFS"
"AEC_PROPERTY_SET_DEFS"
"AEC_RAILING_STYLES"
"AEC_STAIR_STYLES"
"AEC_STAIR_WINDER_STYLES"
"AEC_STAIR_WINDER_TYPES"
"AEC_STRUCTURALMEMBER_STYLES"
"AEC_VARS"
"AEC_WALL_STYLES"
"AEC_WINDOW_ASSEMBLY_STYLES"
"AEC_WINDOW_STYLES"
"AECS_MEMBER_NODE_SHAPE"

 

Registered Applications:

ACAD
AVE_FINISH
ADCADD_ZZ
SDSK_PMN
AECBASE
AEC_DWGVARSSETUP_DATA
AEC_DISPREPCONFIG_DATA
AEC_DISPREPSET_DATA
AcAecLayerStandard
AEC_TEXTNOTE_DATA
AEC_URLDATA
AVE_RENDER
AVE_ENTITY_MATERIAL
AVE_MATERIAL
AVE_GLOBAL
ADCADD_MATERIAL
ADCADD_KEYNOTES
ACAD_DIMASSOC_CALC_DIMLFAC
ACAD_DIMASSOC_DIMLFAC
ACAD_DIMASSOC_OVERRIDDEN_DIMLFAC
ACAD_PSEXT
ACAD_MLEADERVER
DCO15
ADE
RAK
SVPLINE
SDSK_DTM_CONTOUR
DCA_FIGURE_XENT
ADE_PROJECTION
SDI_XSECTIONS
CIVIL_DRAFT
CIVIL_LINE_TABLE
CIVIL_CURVE_TABLE
CIVIL_SPIRAL_TABLE
SDSK_POINT
CONTENTBLOCKICON
SDI_PROFILE
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIMTEXT_FILL
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIMEXT_LENGTH
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIMEXT_ENABLED
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIM_LINETYPE
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIM_EXT1_LINETYPE
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIM_EXT2_LINETYPE
ACAD_EXEMPT_FROM_CAD_STANDARDS
MSCAD_PRO_MSI
AcadAnnoPO
AcadAnnotative
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIMJAG
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIMTALN
ALIGNMENT_DB_APP
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIMJOGGED_JOGANGLE_SYMBOL
ACAUTHENVIRON
AcDbDynamicBlockTrueName
AcDbDynamicBlockGUID
AcDbBlockRepETag
AcCmTransparency
ACAD_DSTYLE_DIMBREAK
ACAD_NAV_VCDISPLAY
GradientColor1ACI
GradientColor2ACI
AcDbBlockRepBTag
AcadAnnoAV
AcadAnnotativeDecomposition
AdeskUnderlayLayerOverrideData
ManulPointsAssociative

*Expert Elite*
dbroad
Posts: 1,507
Registered: ‎08-16-2007
Message 50 of 79 (263 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-05-2012 07:00 AM in reply to: Jason.Piercey

Given my past experience with attempting to clean up AEC drawings, it is very unlikely that a drawing with that many AEC dictionaries could every be completely cleaned so that they do not reinstall themselves.  It usually took 2 or 3 saves before a "cleaned" or "exploded" drawing picked up aec content.

 

I have no specific evidence of vanilla autocad reinstalling AEC content but be wary.

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