AutoCAD 2013/2014/2015

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Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 927
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 71 of 79 (274 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 11:43 AM in reply to: Steve_Johnson

thx for the reply Steve, I am a cadnauseum fan, your aticles are super useful. Autodesk must love you :smileyhappy:

Can you describe if the files you are seeing round-tripped, are things like road and pipeline base files, which are used by Civil 3D data reference objects? Some of the issues I've seen with tripping are stability or corruption related, and some are the fragility of Civil 3D itself, when working right.

Knowing that Civil 3D erases, yes, erases annotation objects if the parent object is not found for any reason, I would really be uncomfortable with knowing my bases are being saved down and up a bunch. Its not too dangerous to maintain a repository of base files that could be used for information at some point, maybe for exhibits or to check things, but to have plan and profile sheets under production with such a set of files is something I've just never seen go well. Can you comment on how your files are being used for plansets that have annotation objects relient on them?

 

As I wrote this, I got a phone call from an "autodesk employee", asking if I knew there was a subscription site, and if I had logged in. That was all she knew, she said to call my reseller on any other issue on my mind.

Is this some kind of scheme to launder money? Are they paying them minimum wage and claiming $100 and hour consultant fees or something? Most useless call I've ever gotten, makes me like Autodesk even more.

thanks

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 927
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 72 of 79 (268 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 11:50 AM in reply to: donande

In response to:

"I talk to customer support yesterday and get this their solution to my AEC 2013 problem was to BUY AutoCAD MEP for the only use of exporting every drawing to the remove the vertical AECs."

 

I too tell companies to have one C3D or top vertical product on sub, for converting files.

Not because I like it, but its currently needed to explode them.

This is a battle that's gone on for years.

I'm wondering if the Civil Batch Converter in C3D explodes al AEC objects, or just C3D ones. I think all.

Be sure to use it rather than the -aecexporttoautocad, one by one command.

It seems like if you had the object enablers available, you could explode the items in any acad version.

Someone can comment on that as I only have c3d so can't test.

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 927
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 73 of 79 (262 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 12:02 PM in reply to: dbroad

in reply to:

...."Failure to round trip effectively is a big flaw IMO if it doesn't work in C3D"

 

I don't think the product designers even have round tripping on their radar.

If they allow annotation to erase itself if the parent object is lost, these round tripping issues are microscopic to them.

I would be surprised if they tested it at all for aec issues, its just not a recommended practice, yet someone had the fortitude to claim it was by design. I thought only Pee Wee Herman got away with "I meant to do that"...

 

*Expert Elite*
JGerth
Posts: 1,924
Registered: ‎12-05-2005
Message 74 of 79 (251 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 12:56 PM in reply to: jmaeding

>>yet someone had the fortitude to claim it was by design. I thought only Pee Wee Herman got away with "I meant to do that"...

 

if the design intent is to enforce functional obsolescence of existing and previous customer's investment in Autodesk software, and to encourage a continued upgrade/subscription revenue stream regardless of impacts to customer's ongoing projects and schedules, then the deliberate hobbling of inter-version/inter-release collaboration  is in fact a design feature of the software.  And it works well.

 

it's just not designed to the customer's benefit. 

 

I'm actually pretty impressed that Autodesk released a service pack for 2012, since that doesn't lead to increased income.  It's a glimmer of positive light.

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 927
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 75 of 79 (248 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 01:04 PM in reply to: JGerth

If you ask the Autodesk product team, they will tell you the side effects of aec objects are accidental.

Seeing what I have seen, I believe them.

They are just trying to get new features out, and that means new object formats constantly.

 

There are so many more basic things not being addressed by programs like C3D, that they don't have enough energy to plan out the transitional effects. What bugs me is when the marketing or support team spins it like they have, please.

I don't have a problem with them saying there is no easy solution to arx object transitions.

I wonder how much time Autodesk itself wastes on support of drawings whose higher version aec objects were not explaoded.

 

Mentor
Jason.Piercey
Posts: 1,096
Registered: ‎04-04-2001
Message 76 of 79 (245 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 01:46 PM in reply to: JGerth

JGerth wrote:

I'm actually pretty impressed that Autodesk released a service pack for 2012, since that doesn't lead to increased income.  It's a glimmer of positive light.


 

Haven't they been releasing service packs for all versions since this

silly 12 month release cycle started?  I don't think they used the term

'service pack' when this started, but call it what you will... it's the same.

 

*Expert Elite*
JGerth
Posts: 1,924
Registered: ‎12-05-2005
Message 77 of 79 (240 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-06-2012 01:56 PM in reply to: Jason.Piercey

r2011 had its last upodate in May of 2011, after 2012 was released, r1020 last saw an update in oct 2009, 6 months before 2011 was released.  2009 last saw an update in june of 2008, so no, releasing updates for a previous product seems to be a relatively new exercise, one which should be applauded.  (note - I'm exluding minor hot-fixes and one-issue patches from my count)

 

Pity the 2012 update does not extend to verticals.....  My personal seat is Map, which always seems to get the least respect from the Desk.

Distinguished Contributor
donande
Posts: 294
Registered: ‎04-26-2005
Message 78 of 79 (217 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-07-2012 06:14 AM in reply to: jmaeding

jmaeding wrote:

If you ask the Autodesk product team, they will tell you the side effects of aec objects are accidental.

Seeing what I have seen, I believe them.

They are just trying to get new features out, and that means new object formats constantly.

 


 


I agree it seems accidental, and assuming it was I have two questions.

 

  1. Do they view it as a “we need to fix this ASAP!” or “What a fortunate accidental, $:smileyvery-happy:$”
  2. Why don’t they just switch to perception only?  (like online game) then instead of have a group of programmer working on making it backward compatible they could work on fixing current features.

 

Mentor
Steve_Johnson
Posts: 604
Registered: ‎05-01-2005
Message 79 of 79 (201 Views)

Re: FYI: AutoCAD 2013 is “As Designed behavior” non-backward compatible.

06-07-2012 06:40 PM in reply to: jmaeding

jmaeding wrote:

thx for the reply Steve, I am a cadnauseum fan, your aticles are super useful. Autodesk must love you :smileyhappy:

Can you describe if the files you are seeing round-tripped, are things like road and pipeline base files, which are used by Civil 3D data reference objects? Some of the issues I've seen with tripping are stability or corruption related, and some are the fragility of Civil 3D itself, when working right.

Knowing that Civil 3D erases, yes, erases annotation objects if the parent object is not found for any reason, I would really be uncomfortable with knowing my bases are being saved down and up a bunch. Its not too dangerous to maintain a repository of base files that could be used for information at some point, maybe for exhibits or to check things, but to have plan and profile sheets under production with such a set of files is something I've just never seen go well. Can you comment on how your files are being used for plansets that have annotation objects relient on them?


 

The Civil 3D objects we use internally are mostly earthworks. Externally, pretty much any vertical can do anything, but if it results in stuff that base AutoCAD can't use, we'll reject it. It's up to the external parties to deal with the issues. I'm sure they have lots of them; the ones that sneak through are hard enough to deal with, let alone having to handle it all the time. I agree that vertical round-tripping is horrible; my point was that it needs fixing because it's horrible, because not everybody can avoid it.

Steve Johnson - blog nauseam - ClassicArray

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