XREF moving without user action

[jhunt107]

Please understand, I feel crazy for even posting this but I did see it happen.

1. We use multiple XREFs with a common origin (0,0,0 and 0 degrees) to collaborate between people.
2. One of several XREF drawings in the MAIN drawing was far out of alignment from the origin.
        The user doesn't know how this happened.
        The overall XREF was approximately centered in the building but.....
        Hundreds of feet wrong in X Y Z
        Rotation = 90 degrees
   
   
3. I helped user reset the position to 0,0,0 and rotation to 0 degrees using the Properties Palette.
4. No one touched the computer at the desk, I talked with the user and a second user who had an issue with the same XREF in a different MAIN dwg.
5. Within 1 minute we all saw that very same XREF move several feet to the left.
6. I looked at the XREF properties to confirm that the X position had changed several feet away from 0.

Like I said it sounds crazy so I'm just looking for a brainstorm of wild ideas of how this could happen.

Autodesk Application Management/Support

Josh 

[pendean]

Are you all locking the layer the XREF is on? Recommended. Always.
Anyone open the XREF file and ensure that model did not move? perhaps it's moving internally.

[jhunt107]

We have a layer dedicated to XREFs, I agree with the methodology, however the user did not lock it.

The second user states he did not change the XREF file. However the modified date/time was just 30 minutes earlier. It could have been any number of people on the network.

What truely concerns me is that from the main DWG I reset the position of the XREF object to 0,0,0 and 0 degrees. Then 3 of us saw it move. There was no prompt to update the XREF. The X position of the XREF was not 0!

[pendean]

Locking down the layer will stop the movement, or confirm the mvoement is due to someone actually moveing content inside the XREF file they have open.

I've never seen a magic XREF move as you describe, sorry.

[jggerth1]

I've seen it happen, and it always boils down to two causes happening concurrently.

The layer the XREF resides on is not locked,

The XREF was included in a selection set  (pickfirst set and a less than totally observant operator)

[doni49]

When you say you "saw it move", I have images of the three of you sitting there looking at your screen and all of a sudden the XRef starts moving across your screen.  🙂

But put it where you want it and leave the file open for a while if you can -- that way it'll be read-only.  See who comes to you wanting to edit that file.  If it keeps moving to the same place and rotation, then chances are that someone has some reason for thinking it belongs there.  Maybe that person is referencing it in to a file that is not set properly.

I once had a similar issue -- a user said that he kept having to move my files and wanted to know why.  Well come to find out that he had accidentally moved HIS stuff to a bad location.  Then when trying to attach my files, he thought mine were bad.  We moved his stuff back in to the right location and all was well again.

[jhunt107]

Don I,
     When I say "we saw it move" you understand me correctly.

- In the MAIN DWG, I reset the position of the XREF object to 0,0,0 and 0 degrees
- We left it alone then within 1 minute...
- ....3 of us saw it jump approximately 7 feet to the left.
- I looked at the XREF object properties and some ghost action/process moved it 7 feet in the X direction.

SCARY!!!

TO ALL,
     I appreciate the ideas about someone editing the XREF and locking the XREF object layer. However there is some ghost action that affected the object in the main DWG.

Is anyone aware of what could move an object automatically without user input?

[vivifira]

Do you have some kind of autorefresh set for you system or maybe some kind of autorestore protocol?  

[jggerth1]

Possibly a LISP Reactor routine running that's misbehaving?

Or just random poltergeists

[Kent1Cooper]

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@jggerth1 wrote:

.... 

Or just random poltergeists

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Make sure you have:

(setvar 'poltergeistaccept 0)

[doni49]

Any new developments in this?  I'm curious.

[jhunt107]

My colleague in Application Management built the deployments. He has written LISP commands but none of them are set on a timer or an event trigger. All of his LISP must be run manually. Also, none of the LISP MOVE objects, they only change properties such as layers, color, or run purge or audit.

The only 3rd party add-in on the system is Siemens FactoryCAD. I've considered this as a cause but this has not reoccured since I logged to original post.     (setvar 'poltergeistaccept 0)    is the best explaination so far.

[doni49]

Well since you've eliminated all the other possibilities, my only remaining guess is that someone is pranking you.  There are apps out there that will allow someone to remotely control your pc.  If someone were to install one on your PC without you knowing it and set it so that they could connect from their PC, they could move your mouse pointer (and any other elements on your screen).

I guess that would be the ultimate prank though. 

[michaelwGEM8U]

Nope. Locked xrefs still move. Autocad is having the usual programming errors. Getting worse and worse every year. New versions are even slower than 2006's.

[RobDraw]

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@michaelwGEM8U wrote:

Nope. Locked xrefs still move.

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How did you "lock" the XREF?

If your XREF is on a layer that is locked as was suggested above, it will not move.

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@michaelwGEM8U wrote:

Autocad is having the usual programming errors. Getting worse and worse every year. New versions are even slower than 2006's.

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Yeah, you should probably ditch that commentary or get a better computer.

[michaelwGEM8U]

Yes....layer locked...randomly moves. Purged. Audited, etc. Seems to have a life of its own when it wants.
'Ditch' the commentary? Its pretty much my experience, I used to be able to draw as fast as I could imagine it, now its definitely jogging pace so Autocad can 'register' the keystrokes and I have to use the spacebar (slamming it sometimes) to make sure its registering. I buy $3k computers every 3-4 years...15 yrs now as an architect. We pay over $1k a year a seat for just this amongst others, of course, we invest in nice computers, that's a given. You? Autodesk part time cheerleader? I think its okay to be completely honest in life. No patience for some kind of fake positivity or corporatism where we all know it exists and can expect better.

[RobDraw]

AutoCAD doesn't do random and if you're blaming the program without asking for help, you've given up. This is a user help forum. Not an editorial page. 

Good luck!

[apjones]

Is anyone changing the insertion point of the xref using the "Base" command?  Physically moving the entire buidling?  We have architects do this to us all the time and never know they are doing it....

[DaveCollins4938]

This issue is real. It's happening to me. We work with a base drawing in model space (ap-jobnumber.dwg). We Xref it and a titleblock file (tb-jobnumber.dwg) to separate files for each drawing sheet (A101-jobnumber.dwg and so on). The title block file is xref'd into paper space and the base drawing file is xref'd in model space. Pretty simple and has been working perfectly for 25 years. Now I am finding drawing sets where every viewport is empty on the sheet files. When the set was released it was perfect. Months later when a revision is required all of the viewport are empty. The base drawing has moved a random x and y distance. The same distance in every drawing. I can fix it by comparing the (0,0) origin of earlier base drawing versions, but this shouldn't happen. It's as if (0,0) has changes location. You can blame user error or ghosts all you want. It's an error and a very frustrating one.

[RobDraw]

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@DaveCollins4938 wrote:

This issue is real. I can fix it by comparing the (0,0) origin of earlier base drawing versions, but this shouldn't happen. It's as if (0,0) has changes location. You can blame user error or ghosts all you want. It's an error and a very frustrating one.

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Well yeah, that would be the basepoint. See the last post. How are you going to prevent this from happening?