AutoCAD 2010/2011/2012

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friendsofrhomb
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎03-26-2012
Message 1 of 15 (25,143 Views)
Accepted Solution

Scaling without changing dimensions

25143 Views, 14 Replies
03-26-2012 01:32 AM

Hi, 

 

I've completed a drawing, with dimensions and everything and I have to reduce it to 1:2 scale to fit my drawing frame. How do I do this without changing the dimensions? Everytime I reduce it the dimensions halve as well!

 

This is my first time using the program so please forgive me if it is a stupid question. Thanks

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Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,893
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 2 of 15 (25,141 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-26-2012 02:08 AM in reply to: friendsofrhomb

Hi,

 

if you scale your entities to the half it's normal that the dimension text also displays tha half value (if your line was 10 and you scaled it down to 5 why should AutoCAD write "10" as dimension value).

 

To use scales for plot please don't scale your geometry! Leave your geometry 1:1 to real world units otherwise you would not have a chance to use your geometry as parts in other drawings without having to rescale it back.

To plot scaled you should use layouts, within the layouts create viewports and assign the plot-scale-factor to the viewport. So its not the model that get's scaled, it's just the plot-output.

Check >>>this<<< for more infos.

 

Good luck, - alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
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*Expert Elite*
heinsite
Posts: 880
Registered: ‎03-15-2008
Message 3 of 15 (25,136 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-26-2012 02:59 AM in reply to: friendsofrhomb

With all due respect to Alfred... because I do respect Alfred... he's way smarter at this AutoCAD stuff than me, I'm going to restate a bit of what he said because sometimes we understand things in different ways.  And I don't disagree with him, I'm just going to explain it all another way.

 

We always draw everything in our model at real world scale, whether that's in millimeters, feet and inches, miles, or parsecs.  It's real world scale, 1:1.  We dimension it the same way so it's all correct.  But when it comes time to put it on paper we can't plot it out real scale.  Who has paper 1,000 meters ft on a side!  So we have to use layouts with viewports.  And we think of those viewports as magnifying glasses that we look thru to see our models.  If we create a viewport with a scale of 1:2 for example we have a 50x magnifying glass.  We don't change our model, we just change the magnifying glass.  And what we see in the Layout shows up on our paper.

 

So, now if we have a big model we just look at it thru our Layout (paper space) viewport with a magnifying glass set to the magnification we need.  Make sense? 

 

If you want to know how to make your dimensions show up correctly in that viewport we'll explain annotative scaling and what that model space scale setting thing is all about.  But you'll have to ask us first.  Until then we'll assume you already know. 

:smileyhappy:

Dave

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Dave Hein, P.E.
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3wood
Posts: 991
Registered: ‎03-25-2009
Message 4 of 15 (25,130 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-26-2012 03:28 AM in reply to: friendsofrhomb

Make a block includes everything then scale the block.

 

3wood

CAD KITS

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drjohn
Posts: 1,698
Registered: ‎03-01-2006
Message 5 of 15 (25,112 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-26-2012 07:46 AM in reply to: 3wood

3wood wrote:

Make a block includes everything then scale the block.

 

3wood

CAD KITS


  :smileysurprised: Yer kiddin' .... right?   :smileyhappy:

 

 

Regards,

DJ

 

Member
friendsofrhomb
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎03-26-2012
Message 6 of 15 (25,089 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-27-2012 01:54 AM in reply to: friendsofrhomb

'If you want to know how to make your dimensions show up correctly in that viewport we'll explain annotative scaling and what that model space scale setting thing is all about.  But you'll have to ask us first.  Until then we'll assume you already know.'

 

SO, in layman's terms, basically a viewport would be the same as placing an object further away from the paper, and drawing the projection ? (assuming scaling down, if scaling up it would be magnifying it)

 

Ok.... could you please explain how to do this :smileytongue:

 

I'm finding AutoCAD has quite a steep learning curve, I'm learning something new everyday, which is great, but it can get frustrating sometimes.

 

3Wood, I think thats what I've already done, resulting in my dimensions changing as well.

*Expert Elite*
heinsite
Posts: 880
Registered: ‎03-15-2008
Message 7 of 15 (25,071 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-27-2012 09:42 AM in reply to: friendsofrhomb

Sure, here goes:

 

AutoCAD offers you two places to work on your model:  Model space and Paper space.  Paper space is in the Layout tabs to the right of the model.  But to see the model (and work on it) in Paper space you need to create a Viewport first (VPORT at the command line).  Viewports have scales, and when you click on the edge of a viewport that you've created the scale feature becomes active on the status line.  Also, when you first create a viewport in a layout everything in your model is visible.  It's up to you at that point to set a scale you want to see it.  The scale that first comes up will be something odd, but you can use it to figure out what the closest standard scale might be by simply computing the reciprocal of it.  And you can actually work on your model from paper space by double clicking anywhere inside the viewport.  To get back out, double click again anywhere outside of the viewport.  The little padlock on the status bar in the Layout tab is used to lock a Viewport... very useful once you've set up a scale.  Many people do almost all of their model work from a Layout viewport nowadays.

 

Now, annotative objects.  These were developed to relieve us of ever having to compute scale factors again.  In the "old" days all plotting was done from the model, and to figure out how big text objects would be in the print you had to compute a scale factor.  Now we use annotative scaling.  In order to use it you need to set up annotative text styles, dimension, multileader, and table styles and specify what heights you want on your plots.  This is where setting a scale in the Model view becomes important because that scale is matched to viewport scales to print things properly.  When the model scale is set and matched to a viewport scale any annotative objects placed in the model will always show in the viewport at the heights you specify.

 

Annotative scaling takes a bit of study at first to fully understand, but it's more than worth the time.  And AutoCAD may well be the most complex computer program you'll ever encounter.  I think it's safe to say that everyone here is still learning it to one degree or another.

 

Dave.

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Dave Hein, P.E.
*Expert Elite*
Bob_Zurunkle
Posts: 1,029
Registered: ‎03-24-2011
Message 8 of 15 (25,067 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-27-2012 09:55 AM in reply to: friendsofrhomb

1. Draw the model in modelspace at 1:1 scale

2. A layout tab is what they are referring to as paperspace. This dates back to when there was only one paperspace and no such thing as tabs. They are now called layout tabs, because by default there are two, but you can copy these to make many more, just like in Microsoft Excel!

3. Look at any plotted sheet. For example, a sheet itself might be 24x36, but contains drawings and annotation and notes, yesno? The drawings might say they have a scale, but the sheet itself is a piece of paper that is 24x36. In paperspace, you adjust the Paperspace manager settings to plot out at 1:1, and you insert a 24x36 titleblock (or whatever size your output is). Therefore, some drawing is done in paperspace -- titleblocks and annotation mostly.

4. You can make viewports in paperspace the same as you can in modelspace, except that in modelspace you use multiple viewports to divide your drawing space so you can see multiple parts of the model at the same time as you work on it. In paperspace you generally make one viewport at a time, and can have many viewports on a sheet. Each viewport is like a monitor in a control booth, looking at a subject on a stage. That's where panning and zooming come in. If you double-click within a viewport you can pan and zoom within it. Double-click outside of it and you can pan and zoom in the paperspace itself.

5. If you highlight a viewport, you will see a list of scales on the taskbar, from which to choose. Once you have one that suits you, you can lock the viewport. This means you can double-click inside the viewport to activate it, and then pan and zoom without losing that viewport scale. There is a zoomscale factor you can use instead of picking from a list. For example, 1/4"=1'-0" is done at a zoomscale of 48xp. Get used to having this level of control over your environment! Remember, that subject on stage didn't change scales -- you just focused your viewport "camera" closer or farther away is all. The zoomscale gives you the equivalent of drawing at a different scale, without the hassle we had with using scales on a drafting board! This makes having many different scaled views on one sheet very easy and convenient, compared to using modelspace only.

 

There is so much more that is possible, and so much more to learn. AutoCAD (since 2008) allows you to override linetypes and colors from one viewport to another, so one can all be gray lines while the other is in color. You can also have one set of layers frozen in one viewport, while having a completely different set of layers frozen in another. Have at it!

If by some odd chance my nattering was useful -- that's great, glad to help. But if it actually solved your issue, then please mark my solution as accepted :smileyhappy:
*Expert Elite*
heinsite
Posts: 880
Registered: ‎03-15-2008
Message 9 of 15 (25,043 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-27-2012 09:38 PM in reply to: Bob_Zurunkle

It's hard to know when to quit with some of these, eh Bob!  :smileytongue:

 

Dave.

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Dave Hein, P.E.
Member
friendsofrhomb
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎03-26-2012
Message 10 of 15 (25,035 Views)

Re: Scaling without changing dimensions

03-28-2012 05:06 AM in reply to: friendsofrhomb

Bob and Heinsite,

 

Thank you very much for your detailed replies, they were a great help. I ended up going into the dimension style manager and changing the measurement scale. It was what my tutor suggested, as he said we will look at viewports later.  (he took ages to reply, hence why I posted on here). I had a fiddle around with the viewport functions, and while I have only scratched the surface, I can see it's going to be a very powerful tool.Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

 

I have now finished my first ever AutoCAD drawing.... HOORAY!

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