Raster Images convert to objects?

[grandcanyonplanet]

In the old days (15years ago) we scanned a lot of files to DXB, and simply imported the image into the .DWG as small objects. (I believe they were treated as polyline segments).

Now, I am forced to Import a TIFF and "embed" the object (if I want it to be a permenant part of the drawing), and edit it with seperate programs like Raster Design.

QUESTION: does anyone know how to convert a "embedded raster image" into a DXB image?

The scanner used to do the work for me and save the image as DXB.

It was not a "vectorization progrqam", but the raster lines became small (not joined) polyline segments in the process.

I don't want to "vectorize" with a seperate program, because then it just "traces" with a zero-width polyline.

The old scanner used to save to DXB, now I don't even see that as an option.

Any words of wisdom about creating a "scan" that can become "objects" (even small dots) INSIDE the DWG file, instead of a "Raster Image" that has to be xref'ed or "embedded", and will not even plot to a DXB or HPGL format?

Thanks for ANY help!

[grandcanyonplanet]

I have mostly TIFF files that I would like to "convert" to DXB, and not have to re-scan them.

I hate that the Raster file is treated as a seperate xref or "embedded" Raster Image.

I KNOW we used to scan directly to DXB and bring in the objects with the DXBIN command!

HELP! 

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

if you want to embed the images use copy&paste. Open the image with any raster file viewer, select the image or part of it ==> copy, activate AutoCAD with your drawing ==> paste.

>> I have mostly TIFF files that I would like to "convert" to DXB

I don't know why you need that as DXB nowadays, it's quite unusual.

Anyway, you can use _PLOTTERMANAGER ==> wizard "Add-A-Plotter" ==> on the second page of the wizard select "My Computer", in the third page select "AutoCAD DXB File". That creates a plotter configuration to create DXB-files when plotting. Done with that you can now use command _IMAGE to place the image into an AutoCAD drawing, then use command _PLOT to create the DXB.

But: you lose quality, the drawings filesize grow to endles and for now I don't see an advantage. The way 15 years ago was just because AutoCAD had not the ability to show images, but thats the past!

- alfred -

[grandcanyonplanet]

Tried the "Plot to DXB" idea...and sadly that IGNORES the Raster Image. It will plot everything that is a "normal" autocad object, but will ignore the raster image.

I also tried to plot to an HPGL file, (to try to use the old PLT2DWG lisp command), and it also ignores the raster image.

The reason I want to get it to DXB is to bring in the raster file as TRUE autocad objects, the way we used to do it with the DXB scans.

THEN, the objects are a permenant pasrt of the drawing (no xrefs), AND the objects can be moved / erased / etc...with normal autocad software...NOT Raster Design.

In the old days we scanned to DXB and they came in as true objects (small polyline segments) on LAYER 7!

[grandcanyonplanet]

~I don't know why you need that as DXB nowadays, it's quite unusual.~The way 15 years ago was just because AutoCAD had not the ability to show images, but thats the past!~

It was actually BETTER, because the scanned data became a permenant part of the drawing file on Layer 7 (ie: no lost or broken Image Xrefs when sending files to clients), and the objetcs could be manipulated within AutoCAD and did not require you to use some seperate software (like an external TIFF editor or Raster Design) to manipulate the scanned objects.

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

>> and sadly that IGNORES the Raster Image

Sorry, have not tried it (and now I'm wondering why a plot command ignores that).

>> THEN, the objects are a permenant pasrt of the drawing

That are objects, that were pasted as OLE objects too!

>> AND the objects can be moved / erased / etc...with normal autocad software

The complete OLE object can also be moved/erased/etc with right-click commands in AutoCAD.

If you really want to edit the single pixel in the image within AutoCAD then even without Rasterdesign I guess the DXB-way is really out of time. Use any free software for raster file edit (like PAINT.NET or GIMP and edit the rasterfile before you add this to your drawing file. The drawing is then clean, the filesize does not raise like with SOLID-drawn converted pixels of the image and perfomance in the drawing is also better (as e.g. objectsnap does not have 4 SOLID-points for each image-converted pixel, same for REGEN, ....).

But I can't control (and don't want to control) how you are working, so I'm sorry not to find a solution with DXB for you.

Sorry, - alfred -

[grandcanyonplanet]

Thanks Alfred, yeah it kinda sucks.

In the old days I could DXBIN the scanned image as small polyline segments (kind of "mini-vectors", so-to-speak, that reflected accurate scanned linewidth), and then I could erase a small section to "revise" that area with normal autocad drafting elements.

In other words I could DXBIN a floorplan, then erase the kitchen and revise only that kitchen area in cad tools, thereby creating a "hybrid" floorplan, but one which was entirlely inside the autocad drawing, and didn't require "external" software to have to keep changing the raster file externally then "re-embed" it with the changes.

The Raster Design software at least allows the "internal editing" but not everyone (clients) have the Raster Design capability.

And I want to create "hybrid" drawings...NOT completely start over with a "vectorized" drawing in which I have to "clean up", and has polylines ALL with zero width data.

The old way was better.

But, I will keep looking. Even if I have to find an old plotter that will still scan to DXB format. In the long run it will save me thousands of hours of vector cleanup work. It's either that, or perhaps I can find a Vectorizing program that maintains linewidths, instead of just "tracing the centerline" with a zero-width polyline.

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

>> And I want to create "hybrid" drawings...NOT completely start over with a "vectorized" drawing

You may use the image as OLE way, and the areas you want to mask can be masked, either using command _WIPEOUT (>>>details<<<) or (my preferred way) use hatches of type SOLID with color (true color) 255,255,255.

Is that a possible workflow for you?

- alfred -

[3wood]

I reckon you had a special scanner 15 years ago which had a special software inside and could vectorize scanned image into DXB format. I remember at that time I had explored some interesting 3rd party vectorize softwars and I don't think the old version AutoCAD itself (R14, R2000?) could convert image into DXB file directly.

[rkmcswain]

---

@Alfred.NESWADBA wrote:

if you want to embed the images use copy&paste.

---

Or use the IEMBED command.

[dgorsman]

The Raster Design tools for converting raster images to CAD entities work quite well, provided the source images are clean.  Thankfully, it also includes tools for cleaning up the drawing content as well such as despeckle and thresholding.

[grandcanyonplanet]

You may use the image as OLE way, and the areas you want to mask can be masked, either using command _WIPEOUT (>>>details<<<) or (my preferred way) use hatches of type SOLID with color (true color) 255,255,255.

Is that a possible workflow for you?

Thanks Alfred, this may be a workable solution. I will look into that further. At least it DOES satisfy the ability to work on the drawing 100% internally, and with normal autocad commands.

I'm also looking to see what the old scanner software was, and how it created the DXB files. Man, it was sweet!

I just didn't realize how sweet it was at the time. LOL!

I have so many TIFF files I would LOVE a conversion from TIFF to DXB that keeps the actuall linewidths of the (sometimes handdrawn) original scans, instead of just "vectorizing" it all with a "trace the centerline" zer-width polyline. The goal is to be able to create "hybrid" drawings that keep the original linework exactly as it is, but be able to "hybrid" small sections/renovations with normal autocad tools.

Your masking idea is definately a valid "workaround".

Any other ideas are also welcome, even if they are "outside the box"! LOL! 🙂

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

>> Any other ideas are also welcome, even if they are "outside the box"!

Can you upload one of your typical images? So we know it's size. it's color-depth (mapping?), maybe (if the data will not get to much to make sense in a drawing) a conversion from image-pixel to AutoCAD-object "SOLID" could be written.

Also one of the drawings from the old time might be a good sample to look at it.

- alfred -

[aqdam1978]

Hi,

Did you tried "hsCADView" software? It's free:

http://apps.hachisoft.com/hscadview/windows/features

Abbas

[grandcanyonplanet]

~Can you upload one of your typical images? So we know it's size. it's color-depth (mapping?), maybe (if the data will not get to much to make sense in a drawing) a conversion from image-pixel to AutoCAD-object "SOLID" could be written. Also one of the drawings from the old time might be a good sample to look at it.~

I can't post either Alfred, because they are company confidential and I have to respect the policy.

But, they are pretty much monochrome wiring schematics, so pretty simple as far as linework.

They have been scanned to TIFF, and were originally XREF'd as external Raster Images.

We are now "embedding" the image to avoid broken links and missing images, but I'd like to find a way to convert the embedded image to something that can be manipulated with normal autocad commands, and without the need for Raster Design software. (perhaps as a Solid, as you mention...and that may have been the object that the old scanner converted things to before). I will see if I still have an old image from the 1990's on disk, and see what entity was actually being DXBINed!

All ideas are appreciated!

[grandcanyonplanet]

It was a good thought, but hsCADview ignores the raster image part of the file. That's exactly why I want these scans to become more than just an embedded Raster Image, because so many programs are compatible with the normal autocad DWG elements, but it takes special software for viewing and editing the Raster Image part of the file. Bring back the good old DXB file, I say! LOL!

[grandcanyonplanet]

I have so many TIFF files I would LOVE a conversion from TIFF to DXB that keeps the actual linewidths of the (sometimes handdrawn) original scans, instead of just "vectorizing" it all with a "trace the centerline" zer-width polyline. The goal is to be able to create "hybrid" drawings that keep the original linework exactly as it is, but be able to "hybrid" small sections/renovations with normal autocad tools.

Very disappointed that autocad and the scanner manufacturers have kinda standardized on the TIFF and PDF formats, which get treated as something you can "view" as a background image, but not edit with normal tools.

The old DXB files were perfect.

I just checked and they did come in as short segmented polylines (on layer 7), but the beauty of it was that they had the same width as whatever the original image was. So, the file sizes weren't HUGE, because they were polylines, but they did match the width of the original linework. TEXT was also just made up of short segments of polylines. It was a beautiful thing! Created PERFECT "hybrid" files where you could "clean up" and add your own work on any section that needed it (with normal tools), and leave the rest of the drawing "as is" and it was as good as the original hand drafting was.

Now it appears that the "Vectorize" programs tracing over the "centerline" of whatever linework with just a zero-width polyline. So you lose all your line widths...leaving LOTS of clean-up work! 

[aqdam1978]

Hi,

If you need a TIF files converter software, may be you can use this one:

http://www.dwgtool.com/traceartfun.htm

[tbennett]

Can you post a simple dxb file?  I want to experiment.

[grandcanyonplanet]

I'll dig one of the old ones up and clean the company stuff off of it, then post what came out of the scanner.

Will do, tonight!