AutoCAD 2010/2011/2012

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vavalexus
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎02-01-2013
Message 1 of 7 (197 Views)
Accepted Solution

Plotting a rendered viewport from layout issue

197 Views, 6 Replies
06-03-2014 08:20 AM

Hello there,

 

I've searched all over the internet but found no solution, so I ask you help.

I've been working for a long time in AutoCad 2006 but unfortunately our company has to buy new copies for staff so we have to upgrade since 2006 wich I am used to is not supported.

So I am facing few issues with a new product. But will not tell about everything here since it won't correspond the topic. Here I will descirbe the issue with a viewport.

In a layout I have few viewports - top view, isometric wireframe with hidden lines and isometric rendred one. Aotocad 2006 handles rendered viewport just fine, I got pdf with describe wihiports within 1 minute. Autocad 2012/2014 renderes it in a model space in 30-40 sec but in a layout it renders forever! I waited 30 minutes with no luck. In printer set upp quality is set to normal. It is a stumbling block and I can't move on untill it is solved, I will not render it to the file and paste into layout. It is a standard procedure i've been using for years and I just can't figure out what is wrong. And it is not the metter of a printer driver it is about Autocad. It is 30-40 sec to render layout to pdf in 2006. Attached: model render (30 sec), layout screenshot, example of layout printout to pdf in Autocad 2006 (also in pdf).

4x3 Autocad.jpeglayout.JPG

Unipak.JPG

*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,888
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 2 of 7 (180 Views)

Re: Plotting a rendered viewport from layout issue

06-03-2014 02:18 PM in reply to: vavalexus

Hi,

 

great work and great description!

 

>> model space in 30-40 sec but in a layout it renders forever! I waited 30 minutes with no luck

The major difference is:

- when rendering the modelspace the output is set to 640x480 pixel
- when rendering the viewport it's the size of the viewport that defines the resolution ==>

  viewort size: 130 x 100 mm / 5 x 4 inch  (all values rounded)

  with a resolution of 600dpi that results in 3000 x 2400 pixel

So besides of some rendersettings be careful how to set your PDF resolution, if you set the output to 300dpi it's much faster compared to a PDF resolution of 600dpi or 1200 dpi (you can set the output resoltion within the custom properties of the DWG to PDF.pc3.

 

What I do in such cases: I don't render the viewport with every plot. I render the model once, save that result into a file and reference that file into the layout. So the plot command finds a finished raster-file and there is no need to render while plotting. The disadvantage of that workflow: don't forget to recreate the rendered image when you modified anything on the model.

 

HTH, - alfred -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Active Contributor
vavalexus
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎02-01-2013
Message 3 of 7 (173 Views)

Re: Plotting a rendered viewport from layout issue

06-04-2014 01:47 AM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Dear Alfred!

 

I see you are one of the most helpful and experienced forum users, so thank you very much for finding time helping other!

 

As for my question. I understand what you mean about resolutions. I noted that Autocad 2006 prints layout to pdf with rendered viewport longer then if it rendered it to the file but not that bad as 2012. Does it use different render viewport method?

I will try to answer my question myself and you will put me right if I am wrong.

 

Autocad 2006 uses completely different render engine that has no photometric light and other complicated calculations. Its render is approximate. Time spend on the render there does not depend on the resolution that much as it does in Autocad 2012. With higher resolution Autocad 2006 just enlarges picture (I render it raytraced though but there are no photometric light, I think it is the point) and Autocad 2012 runs a lot of calculations for lights, shadows, raytracing etc.

 

I have just run a test.

Render with Autocad 2012:

basic mid setting 640x480 takes 17 seconds,

basic mid setting 3000x2400 - 15 minutes

high setting with no antialliasing (examples=1) 640x480 takes 19 seconds

high setting with no antialliasing (examples=1) 3000x2400 seconds - cannot wait but it will take about 18 minutes to my mind

basic high settings (antialiisaing examples = 16) 640x480 takes 42 seconds

basic high settings (antialiisaing examples = 16) 3000x2400 seconds - cannot wait but it will take about 45 minutes to my mind

 

Render with Autocad 2006:

no antialliasing 640x480 takes 15 seconds

no antialliasing 3000x2400 - 2 minutes 30 seconds

mid antialliasing 640x480 takes 1 minutes

mid antialliasing 3000x2400 - 18 minutes 30 seconds

 

So as I see Autocad 2012 is much time depended then 206 when rendering high resolution. If no antialliasing compared then Autocad 2012 3000x2400 takes 60 times as much as 640x480 and Autocad 2006 only 10 times.

 

As for a pdf printout I am more that satisfied in 640x480 viewport render.

So, if it renders actual size 13x10 cm in 600 dpi it will be about 3100x2400, if 300 dpi then it is 1500x1200, so if I need 640x480 then I should use 150 dpi. I will try to look into PDF setting.

 

I think you gave me the right vector to think thanks a lot!

Here is what I have. The pdf resolution for graphic images was set to 1200dpi! I set it to 144dpi. Tried high and presentation presets in print setting, but the render gets too much lit out:

render-1.JPG

 

But is should look like this:

render-2.JPG

 

Maybe it is because in a layout it uses white color as a background so this white color gives additional ambient light? Rather strange though since Autocad 2006 when rendering viewport uses model settings for environment. Any advice how to fix it?

 

And as for your example to xref a rendered file. I know about that and apply it in worst cases when nothing helps (sometimes Autocad 2006 just want render viewports and it easier to do as your wrote then search for a mistake reason. But in 99% I render viewports, this is how it should be). When rendering to a file you also have to consider proportions to fit in the viewport. But I have easier method - set the viewport I want to get rendered to wireframe settings when printing (so it doesn’t spend time for it), activate it, render it, use windows scissors to cut it, and paste it on top. In this case no temporary files, proportion and size will fit and it is done faster.

 

Here is step by step screenshots.

Render steps.jpg

*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,888
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 4 of 7 (153 Views)

Re: Plotting a rendered viewport from layout issue

06-04-2014 02:38 PM in reply to: vavalexus

Hi,

 

first thank you for your knd words!

 

To the render-time comparision 2006 and 2012 ... that are different rendersystems. Mental Ray needs more power, but can create a quality that can't be done with 2006.

 

If you do copy & paste with raster file or reference it makes the difference that OLE-objects (when you paste an image) create some more issues (e.g. when plotting) compared to referenced files, But at least, if it works for you, do it that way, it's ok.

 

The background for the image (black or white or an image or a color ramp) can be set in the _VIEW command, create a view (better a camera which is quite similar with a few advantages) and there you can modify the background.

 

HTH, - alfred -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Active Contributor
vavalexus
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎02-01-2013
Message 5 of 7 (145 Views)

Re: Plotting a rendered viewport from layout issue

06-05-2014 04:43 AM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Hi Alfred!

 

Thank you for your help. I didn't know new Autocad save environment settings in views, I used to work in 2006 where all settings for background to be changed in environment and they are applied to everything - morel, layout. Here I as I need to setup each view and it can save different settings.

Here it is what I get:

Autocad:

Render-1.jpeg

 

Autodesk 360 (the picture there is magnificent. I am only waiting for hidden layer render fix). I will use it for special cases when quality is crusial.

Render-11 360.jpg

 

I also managed to print rendered viewport in layout with your hint about views settings.

 

The most time consuming are ray tracing and anti-aliasing, so I've created own render presets for different cases (speed, quality etc) and use it in viewport visualization settings. Also I calculated that I am satisfied with 144 dpi for my 1/4 of A4 printout. Also I created my own glass material since the build-in is rendered 4 times longer.

 

Here is PDF screenshot. It is 25 sec render, more than satisfactory result! If necessary I can increase quality at any time.

Viewport.JPG

 

 

So eventually I can say that the problem is SOLVED! Thanks to you Albert, you gave advices that helped!

 

It is only one problem left before migrating from 2006 to 2012 and I will crate new topic for - issue applying texture materials to curved surface (say 1/4 of side surface of cylinder). Autocad 2006 has mapping with 3 point - fast and precise! Autocad 2012 doesn't have it, only gizmo box which make my crazy to apply a texture with precision.

 

Active Contributor
vavalexus
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎02-01-2013
Message 6 of 7 (140 Views)

Re: Plotting a rendered viewport from layout issue

06-05-2014 07:24 AM in reply to: vavalexus

Alfred,

 

Just tried out decreasing dpi resolution in Autocad 2006! Hell yes, it is 3 times faster then it was! :smileyhappy: Tested the layout I used to render for 50 seconds, now it prints out in 15 seconds with the same quality! Somehow I didn't get 1200 dpi of set value in Adobe PDF, it looked almost like 300 dpi (blured out when zommed in).

Thank you very very much!!!

 

 

Active Contributor
vavalexus
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎02-01-2013
Message 7 of 7 (130 Views)

Re: Plotting a rendered viewport from layout issue

06-05-2014 12:55 PM in reply to: vavalexus

Little offtop question.

 

How can I turn off light in a model view? I know I can turn on/off graphicsl icons for lights, shadows, but I can't find how to turn off light effects. Autocad lags with light preview and it shows it totally overexposed, I'd better off turning them in a model view off for goods. Can't find it in options/system as well.

Model exposed.jpg

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